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Thread: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Biparti

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    No, 12,000 is not a low number for a population of 300 million. It is in fact the highest rate on the planet, and it's climbing, whatever the rates of gun sales are. The UK has a population of 65-70 million, and there were 68 violent gun crimes last year. The UK's population is not 1/176 of America's -- in fact, it's about 1/4 of America's. American gun crime rates, however, are 176x that of the UK's, as well as being, as I said, the highest in the world.

    Any way you spin it, 12,000 is a huge number for a country that claims to be at peace -- less than half of that have been killed in Iraq, or Afghanistan. Your country has a severe, debilitating problem with gun crime and gun control, and I should think that last week's Arizona shooting ought show you, along with massacres like Virginia Tech, Columbine, and the bi-monthly news stories about shootings at the mall, that it's not contained to the Mediaeval-esque ghettoes of your major cities.

    I can not begin to comprehend how this fails to resonate with you -- it's as though you're holding on to your guns now out of sheer stubornness, solely because it has become a point on contension between your party and the opposition, and you've the overwhelming fear of the "other side" built into you from living too long in your fear-mongering country -- which, in turn, leads people to buy more and more weapons. It's a bloody vicious cycle.


    Also, the link still ain't workin', mate.
    Let me see if I can explain it. There are any number of things that could be legislated that might make me "safer". They could make the speed limit 40 mph all over the country, make trans fat or cigarettes illegal or mandate that I exercise everyday, but I'd rather be able to make my own choices. Even if I believed guns made life here more risky, I'd rather live with the risk of that freedom than be safe in tyranny.

    Now, I don't think I'm less safe because the US has guns. 12,000 out of 300,000,000, to me, shows the vast majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding.
    Last edited by X Factor; 01-16-11 at 08:07 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    No, sir. By my logic, you're a racist for proscribing Obama to a militant racist group and ideology, because of his political leaning. Therein lies the difference -- and it is a marked one, I assure you.
    He attended a church that openly prescribed to that philosophy. Like it or not, guilt by association (especially in this example) is substantial evidence.

    Now, as for the socialist bit -- I realise that someone as ingrained with conservative values as yourself won't ever admit to such a thing, but (and here comes the sun), "Socialism isn't evil".
    Socialism, by its definition, relieves people of their rights. I'm of the opinion that God given rights are not property of the government.

    Putting aside your American knee-jerk mouth-foaming reaction to the word 'socialism', I'll point out that one can espouse socialist ideas, while not being a socialist, just the same as I, a socialist, can espouse some conservative values, while not being a conservative.
    You could, except Obama has supported the government take over of oil, health care, and financials...the three biggest industries in this country. It is hard to imagine that someone with aspirations of government control of the three biggest industries isn't socialist.

    If you wish to label the man a socialist (which I might point out is something we could only wish for), you must look at the policies he's implemented, and those he's failed to implement. He has implemented some socialist policies (albeit badly, unfortunately), and many more liberal democratic policies, along with acquiescing to some conservative policies. To me, that would place him squarely in the liberal democrat (or just Democrat, in the States) camp, while still allowing for non-partisan (or bi-partisan, if there're only two parties) co-operation and the fair appraisal of each policy, based on how it would affect the nation, not his party's ideological stance on it.
    LOL...he's implemented conservative policies? Like what?

    Labelling him a socialist any further would be turning a blind eye to all the non-socialist policies he's passed through, and all the socialist policies that've failed to pass -- thus making you, as I said, ignorant.
    He has shown a propencity for planning. Just because his policies aren't 100% socialist doesn't mean they aren't designed to deliver socialism.

    As well, the blanket claim that, as a politician, Obama MUST be lying is laughable. Do politicians lie? Of course. Does everything they say necessarily have to be a lie? No, of course not. The likelihood of him lying about his political leanings to become some sort of socialist sleeper-cell and turn the USA into the USSA is absolutely stupid. If he says he's not a socialist, he's not a socialist. If he says he IS a socialist, then he's probably a socialist. You didn't start calling him a neo-con when he refused to shut down Gitmo, did you?
    He hasn't refused to shut down Gitmo...he just can't come up with a viable alternative. Ineffectiveness =/= compliance.

    You're a fearmonger, and you fall prey to your own fearful ramblings.
    I'm not a fearmonger...again, you label me based on rampant assumptions.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    It isn't against the rules of DP to be a racist, is it -- only to make derogatory racial comments. Thus, calling someone a racist, with good evidence, isn't an insult, but rather a labelling, and, I think, allowed. But I could be wrong.
    No, sir, you had no "good evidence" to call him that. You just played the race card, you must have been losing the argument.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    It isn't against the rules of DP to be a racist, is it -- only to make derogatory racial comments. Thus, calling someone a racist, with good evidence, isn't an insult, but rather a labelling, and, I think, allowed. But I could be wrong.

    As an educated man I presume you are familiar with Godwin's Law and accusations of fascism. Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There's a corollary on accusations of racism. It's called Jack's Corollary aka Reducio ad Klanum:Jack’s Corollary to Godwin’s Law: Reductio ad Klanum | RedState

  5. #45
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That has nothing to do with what we are discussion. I don't really care what Obama knew about Rev. Wright's politics. Personally, I think it speaks to a weakness of Obama's character that he disowned a friend of so many years for political reasons, but again, it's irrelevant to the point I am making in this thread, which is that: Liberation Theology is not socialism.

    Liberation Theology is a laudable and very Christian theology that emphasizes service to the poor. It's the kind of theology Christ Himself had.
    I never said it was. I said the church prescribed to both.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  6. #46
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    No, 12,000 is not a low number for a population of 300 million. It is in fact the highest rate on the planet, and it's climbing, whatever the rates of gun sales are. The UK has a population of 65-70 million, and there were 68 violent gun crimes last year. The UK's population is not 1/176 of America's -- in fact, it's about 1/4 of America's. American gun crime rates, however, are 176x that of the UK's, as well as being, as I said, the highest in the world.

    Any way you spin it, 12,000 is a huge number for a country that claims to be at peace -- less than half of that have been killed in Iraq, or Afghanistan. Your country has a severe, debilitating problem with gun crime and gun control, and I should think that last week's Arizona shooting ought show you, along with massacres like Virginia Tech, Columbine, and the bi-monthly news stories about shootings at the mall, that it's not contained to the Mediaeval-esque ghettoes of your major cities.

    I can not begin to comprehend how this fails to resonate with you -- it's as though you're holding on to your guns now out of sheer stubornness, solely because it has become a point on contension between your party and the opposition, and you've the overwhelming fear of the "other side" built into you from living too long in your fear-mongering country -- which, in turn, leads people to buy more and more weapons. It's a bloody vicious cycle.


    Also, the link still ain't workin', mate.
    There is definitely a correlation between the number of guns in the US vs the UK, and the incidence of gun violence in the two countries. We have about 90 guns per hundred residents, vs 5.6 in the UK.

    The question is, is it a cause and effect relationship, or just a correlation? Does the UK, for example, have the gang problem we have? Isn't most of the gun violence related to gang wars?

    The ratios are quite different. The ratio of gun ownership is about 6/90, or 1/15. The ratio of violence, given in the above post, is 68/12,000. There must be another factor contributing to the incidence of gun violence in the US.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Yes it is. It's the government's business to keep its citizens safe, and with religious fanatics all over middle America walking around with pistols and shotguns on their person, the populace isn't very safe now is it?

    So, the government has several clear-cut and rightful reasons to limit and restrict the sale of weapons.
    Law enforcement should intervene, when they see a dangerous person out on the street. Not accost a law abiding citizen.

    Instead of ****ing over people who haven't done anything, perhaps they should **** over people who have done something, like Loughner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #48
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Yes it is. It's the government's business to keep its citizens safe, and with religious fanatics all over middle America walking around with pistols and shotguns on their person, the populace isn't very safe now is it?

    So, the government has several clear-cut and rightful reasons to limit and restrict the sale of weapons.
    It is also the governments job to follow the spirit and letter of the Constitution. While they might be following the letter of it they are definitly not following the spirit.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #49
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A requirement to report sales does not in any way violate the second amendment right to keep and bear arms. There is no infringement of the second amendment here, sorry.
    as usual you fail to understand how the constitution works

    1) the government cannot act in a way to violate the bill of rights AND
    2) the government cannot act in areas where the constitution has not delegated it authority

    the proposal clearly runs afoul of the second point-AKA the Tenth amendment

    real libertarians understand this two part requirement



  10. #50
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    Re: Obama Administration's New Proposed Gun Regulation for Border States Met With Bip

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    You can do as many NRA studies as you want, mate (and there are, by the way, plentiful studies saying the direct opposite -- in fact, a supermajority of studies claim that more guns = more gun violence), but you can't get around the fact that there were ~12,000 gun crimes committed in the US last year, and there were 68 in the UK.


    By the way, I'd be happy to link the studies for you, if you're willing to have a debate on the subject.


    As well, your link was fake. Check it.
    the opinions of a eurosocialist subject whose rights have been castrated by a nanny--government really has no relevance to free citizens living in a constitutional republic where the government should fear its citizens rather than us fearing the government.

    Freedom-its what matters-deal with it



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