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Thread: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

  1. #41
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    The Feds have too much power. They are being run by special interests groups. Not to say that the states are not. But at least different states have different special interests running them. But for the Feds. Its pretty much the same special interests groups for all involved. Its sad. We will not ever know sovereignty until the federal government weakens its holds on state governments. You know what people in Illinois want to run things might be different than what the people in North Carolina want to be run.

  2. #42
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    well, washington knows best

    all those elite diplomas, and all

    why, look at the results

    americans are rubes

    and it's all about our precious, underappreciated public employees

    US public pensions face a shortfall of $2,500 billion that will force state and local governments to sell assets and make deep cuts to services, according to the former chairman of New Jersey’s pension fund.

    “States face cost pressure, most prominently from retirement benefits and Medicaid [the health programme for the poor],” Orin Kramer told the Financial Times.

    “One consequence is that asset sales and privatisation will pick up. The very unfortunate consequence is that various safety nets for the most vulnerable citizens will be cut back.”

    Mr Kramer, an influential figure in the Democratic party and still a member of the investment council that oversees the New Jersey pension fund, has been an outspoken critic of public pension accounting, which allows for the averaging of investment gains and losses over a number of years through a process called “smoothing”.

    Using data from the states, the Pew Center on the States, a research group, has estimated a funding gap for pension, healthcare and other non-pension benefits, such as life assurance, of at least $1,000 billion as of the end of fiscal 2008.

    Chris Christie, the Republican governor of New Jersey, said in his state of the state speech last week that, without reform, the unfunded liability of the state’s pension system would rise from $54 billion now to $183 billion within 30 years.

    Mr Kramer’s estimates are based on the assets and liabilities of the top 25 public pension funds at the end of 2010. The gap has risen from an estimate of more than $2,000 billion at the end of 2009.

    Concerns about the financial health of local governments have sparked warnings of a rise in defaults for cities and towns and a sell-off in the $3,000 billion municipal bond market where they raise money.

    Last week, the interest rate on 30-year top rated municipal debt rose above 5 percent for the first time in about two years.

    Amid the volatility, New Jersey had to cut the size of a planned bond sale. Although Mr Kramer said some local governments would experience “severe strain”, he did not foresee mass defaults.

    The state of Pennsylvania last year advanced money to Harrisburg, its capital, so that the cash-strapped city could avoid a default on its general obligation bonds.

    In February, Illinois, which is facing an unfunded pension obligation of at least $80 billion, plans to sell $3.7 billion of bonds to pay for its annual contribution.
    News Headlines

    let's electioneer on the issue

    via secret ballot

  3. #43
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    i think so, because it applies a common sense approach
    if more than half have signed up, the obvious conclusion can be drawn

    Well your obvious conclusion, as I see it is somewhat flawed, based on your conclusion, there would be no need of state elections, or federal elections .. just count up who has more registered voters, Democrats or Republicans, Who ever has sign up more registered voters win, no need for the actual election..

    So in you so called independent mind, no one signing up for a union vote, could possibly be signing up so his “NO” vote could be heard ?? If that is your obvious conclusion, then it should be an obvious conclusion that your thinking is no where close to independent, but fully liberal.

    The obvious conclusion of your thinking is that everyone in this country "wants" to be a union member, that thinking is not less then far left liberal thought.
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 01-21-11 at 03:10 AM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    originally appearing in the financial times of london, today

    carried by cnbc

    News Headlines



    our poor underpaid, underappreciated, overplied public employees with their paltry pensions...

    their pain is impartible

    party on, progressives
    Did you know that not all public employees are in unions? Most are not. A pension is a promise made, just like in a private company. Just because the employer squanders it's money irresponsibly, doesn't mean the employee should take it in the ass. A public employee hires on with the same expectations as any other employee in America, that the employer will fulfill its promise to the employee it hired.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/bu..._r=2&src=busln

    It's not the employees fault when elected officials are irresponsible with the money entrusted them by the public, and how many elected officials will lose their pensions? ZERO! Remember the only person in government with real power, is the one that is elected. Public employees are no more powerful than any other employee in this country, especially those who are not members of a union. I'm not defending unions, but don't go lumping all public employees into one pile.
    Last edited by American; 01-21-11 at 03:29 AM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #45
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    did you know that each of the 2.5 trillion dollars of shortfall under discussion is owed to a person who IS a member of a public union?

    did you know that each of the 2.5 trillion dollars of shortfall is underwritten, therefore, by the us taxpayer?

    it's not the taxpayers' fault when union bosses negotiate with overly open handed city and state leaders pension plans worth several times what the taxpayers' pensions promise to pay

    LINK: 2 + 2 = 4

    remember, the only employee that has been overpromised and underfunded by any public pension plan must perforce be member of a public employees union

    don't go lumping all taxpayers into one pit---we can't afford it, the pension plans are bankrupting us

  6. #46
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Card check can also lead to voter intimidation though
    gosh. what a claim. well, chevy, do unions have a history of such hardball tactics?

  7. #47
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    did you know that each of the 2.5 trillion dollars of shortfall under discussion is owed to a person who IS a member of a public union?

    did you know that each of the 2.5 trillion dollars of shortfall is underwritten, therefore, by the us taxpayer?

    it's not the taxpayers' fault when union bosses negotiate with overly open handed city and state leaders pension plans worth several times what the taxpayers' pensions promise to pay

    LINK: 2 + 2 = 4

    remember, the only employee that has been overpromised and underfunded by any public pension plan must perforce be member of a public employees union

    don't go lumping all taxpayers into one pit---we can't afford it, the pension plans are bankrupting us
    You ignored everything I said, I'm done with this conversation.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #48
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Well your obvious conclusion, as I see it is somewhat flawed, based on your conclusion, there would be no need of state elections, or federal elections .. just count up who has more registered voters, Democrats or Republicans, Who ever has sign up more registered voters win, no need for the actual election..

    So in you so called independent mind, no one signing up for a union vote, could possibly be signing up so his “NO” vote could be heard ?? If that is your obvious conclusion, then it should be an obvious conclusion that your thinking is no where close to independent, but fully liberal.

    The obvious conclusion of your thinking is that everyone in this country "wants" to be a union member, that thinking is not less then far left liberal thought.
    actually, it is your reasoning which is flawed, equating this to a national election
    there is a significant difference
    the request for a union election is initiated by a form executed by the prospective union member who has agreed to join and pay dues to the union if 50% plus one agree
    once 50% plus one have signed such form, the need for an election is rendered moot, as that majority have effectively cast their "ballots" when submitting their signed form, requesting representation by the union
    and de-certification of the union - an effort to oust a union in the workplace - follows the same procedure
    you compared apples to oranges and got fruit salad ... hopefully you have it figured out now
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #49
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    still no reason to SUE sovereign states that feel private voting is a value

    establishment of collective bargaining is only a beginning

    my union, for instance, affiliate of the cta, won't GO ON STRIKE without membership approval

    we express ourselves via secret ballot

    is nlrb gonna FORCE us to do otherwise?

  10. #50
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    Re: Feds threaten to sue states over union laws

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    still no reason to SUE sovereign states that feel private voting is a value
    wrong
    a very sound reason to sue them to comply with federal law is to enforce compliance with law/rule/regulation which is intended to prevent employers from subverting the employees' right to collectively bargain

    establishment of collective bargaining is only a beginning

    my union, for instance, affiliate of the cta, won't GO ON STRIKE without membership approval
    5 USC chapter 71 describes unionization. it requires unions to be democratic organizations. it appears yours is properly conforming in that respect

    we express ourselves via secret ballot
    another mechanism to conform to the expectation of democratically managed unions

    is nlrb gonna FORCE us to do otherwise?
    why would the NLRB compel you to act in an unlawful manner?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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