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Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

Catz Part Deux said:
This is why I believe that it could actually happen. Most women in the armed forces don't want to serve in combat. Those who do should be required to meet the same living and working conditions as the men, and would probably welcome the opportunity to do so.
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the problem is that certain elements of the population would never allow for women serving in combat to be treated the same as men. they will always insist on separate housing, showers, latrines, etc.
 
OscarB63 said:
the problem is that certain elements of the population would never allow for women serving in combat to be treated the same as men. they will always insist on separate housing, showers, latrines, etc.
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By "certain elements," do you mean the wives of the guys in combat?
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Then this is irrelevant to their combat role, amirite?
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no, because the combat role doesn't exist in a vacuum. you can't lock them in storage and then pull them out to go on missions.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
By "certain elements," do you mean the wives of the guys in combat?
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them and politicians and liberal women's organizations and mothers and fathers of the girls in combat. my wife is one of them, where my daughter is concerned.

society in general is not ready for a "starship troopers" military.
 
I am an MP, not technically a combat arm and we had problems with females in Iraq. they could not walk alone anywhere due to the constant threat of kidnap and/or rape by the local men.
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I met a guy in the oil field who was working near Egypt and on a visit to Cairo an Arab man ran up to his wife and molested her in public. The same thing happened to my brother’s wife in Lebanon but the other guy was so angry that when he got back to the off shore rid he was working on he threw an Arab off of the landing pad. I forget why he picked that one but he didn’t like the guy already so he asked him to meet him of the helicopter pad and pitched him into the water.

Think what would happen if a woman trooper was wounded and captured and then found tortured and raped. Our guys wouldn’t be getting any of the “Didn’t Shoot” medals that Barry is promoting.
 
several times while out on patrols, we had local men offer us considerable sums of money to buy the female members of the squad.

personally, I don't think there is anything physically or mentally inferior about women that should preclude them from serving in combat, it is the social/political issues that make it problematical. and unfortunately, I don't see an easy way around them.
 
OscarB63 said:
yeah right. try telling them that they are going to have to share showers/living quarters with the guys and see how fast the complaining starts. and the sad part is, the women who could or would want to serve in combat would not be the ones complaining.
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Look, it would be little problem to shower at different times. We all don't get into a limited shower at the exact same times. And in the field, we often merely wash up a little. So, this should not be a huge problem. And the only ones who matter are those who want to be in combat. Those who don't, don't matter.
 
Boo Radley said:
Look, it would be little problem to shower at different times. We all don't get into a limited shower at the exact same times. And in the field, we often merely wash up a little. So, this should not be a huge problem. And the only ones who matter are those who want to be in combat. Those who don't, don't matter.
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unfortunately those who don't are the ones who make policy, so they do matter.

and yes, logistically it would not be hard to schedule shower rotations. I have on several occasions mentioned that myself, the reaction I got would lead one to believe I was Hitler.
 
BCR said:
If women want to fight on the front lines then let them have their wish...As long as it isn't a hindrance to the unit. I see no reason why a well trained female can't be useful on the front lines.
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It will be a hindrance to the unit. That's the point that being made.
 
Boo Radley said:
Generalize much? It is not possible to be a woman and not be damaging to the unit? [Are male soilders really as fragile and immature as you paint them?
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We're talking about teenagers, so the asnwer would be, yes. Not only are we talking about male soldiers, we're talking about female soldiers who will exhibit the same immaturity.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
No one on this thread has argued for this type of preferential treatment, in fact, the supporters of women in combat have all stated that women should be held to the same standards and receive the same treatment. Thus, this is a strawman.
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The part that you're missing, is that this standard already exists, because of the policies currently in place. It's not going away and as Oscar pointed out, the existance of such policies in combat arms units will cause resentment within the ranks and thereby damage unit cohesion.
 
apdst said:
We're talking about teenagers, so the asnwer would be, yes. Not only are we talking about male soldiers, we're talking about female soldiers who will exhibit the same immaturity.
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Teenagers? That would be true if they were thirteen maybe. But if they are so frigile and immature as to deal with differeing sex, they're too fragile and immature to function in a war zone. Are you really going to go with this?
 
OscarB63 said:
unfortunately those who don't are the ones who make policy, so they do matter.

and yes, logistically it would not be hard to schedule shower rotations. I have on several occasions mentioned that myself, the reaction I got would lead one to believe I was Hitler.
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Well, I believe objection would end shortly after implimentation. ;)
 
Catz Part Deux said:
This is why I believe that it could actually happen. Most women in the armed forces don't want to serve in combat. Those who do should be required to meet the same living and working conditions as the men, and would probably welcome the opportunity to do so.
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That's all fine-n-dandy, till some chick raises hell, because she's forced to strip nekkid, under a tree, to wash her twat in a 5 gallon bucket, while her comrades watch.

That's why the environment that you suggest will never happen.
 
If it works in Israel, it should work in the United States. I'm getting tired of people using our cultural limitations as an excuse not to be better, whether in education, the military, or anywhere else.
 
Boo Radley said:
Teenagers? That would be true if they were thirteen maybe. But if they are so frigile and immature as to deal with differeing sex, they're too fragile and immature to function in a war zone. Are you really going to go with this?
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Yes, I am going to go with that. You've been in the service, you know how immature and in need of constant adult supervision soldiers can be. Especially combat arms soldiers.
 
Morality Games said:
If it works in Israel, it should work in the United States. I'm getting tired of people using our cultural limitations as an excuse not to be better, whether in education, the military, or anywhere else.
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Who said that it works in Israel? Don't forget, the IDF banned women from combat units, because it wasn't working. Actually, there's more evidence that it doesn't work, than there is that it does.
 
apdst said:
Who said that it works in Israel? Don't forget, the IDF banned women from combat units, because it wasn't working. Actually, there's more evidence that it doesn't work, than there is that it does.
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That runs counter to my understanding. I'll need some links.

EDIT:

I can't find any info on the Israel Defense Forces banning women from combat units in recent decades; most articles maintain increasing integration.
 
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Morality Games said:
That runs counter to my understanding. I'll need some links.

EDIT:

I can't find any info on the Israel Defense Forces banning women from combat units in recent decades; most articles maintain increasing integration.
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The IDF banned women from serving in combat arms units in 1948. It's common knowledge.

Despite a 1995 Israeli court ruling that struck down the "men-only" rule for combat units, women have not served in combat since 1948, and integration into combat-support platoons has been slow. According to IDF statistics, 84 percent of female soldiers still serve in administrative roles with only 1 percent training for combat roles, and 82 percent of female soldiers have had no weapons training.

Israeli women won't see combat
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So far only 1% of the female soldiers serving in the IDF are serving in, "combat roles". A, "combat role", doesn't necessarily imply that they are serving in combat arms units.
 
Morality Games said:
That runs counter to my understanding. I'll need some links.

EDIT:

I can't find any info on the Israel Defense Forces banning women from combat units in recent decades; most articles maintain increasing integration.
Click to expand...

The IDF banned women from serving in combat arms units in 1948. It's common knowledge.

Despite a 1995 Israeli court ruling that struck down the "men-only" rule for combat units, women have not served in combat since 1948, and integration into combat-support platoons has been slow. According to IDF statistics, 84 percent of female soldiers still serve in administrative roles with only 1 percent training for combat roles, and 82 percent of female soldiers have had no weapons training.

Israeli women won't see combat
Click to expand...

So far only 1% of the female soldiers serving in the IDF are serving in, "combat roles". A, "combat role", doesn't necessarily imply that they are serving in combat arms units.
 
For the life of me, I can't figure out why American women would even want to serve on the front lines. For every soldier on the front lines, there are probably (guessing) 100 supporting him. Why would a woman be so eager to change the laws so she could get herself killed? I just don't get it.
 
apdst said:
The IDF banned women from serving in combat arms units in 1948. It's common knowledge.



So far only 1% of the female soldiers serving in the IDF are serving in, "combat roles". A, "combat role", doesn't necessarily imply that they are serving in combat arms units.
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There is the Caracal Battalion:
Caracal Battalion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And there are very few females who serve in used-to-be male only combat units in Golani, Nahal, Kfir, Magav, Givati etc as fighters. I personally know such person even though they make a very small minority amongst female recruits. There are also some female jet pilots, a role that requires advanced combat skills.

Besides that, a lot of females such as my sister serve in roles that are labeled as "combat supporters" and are trained for non-front-line combat purposes, and there are also female soldiers that serve in roles where, while they are not intended to be used for combat purposes, they are trained for such since they are stationed in places that might put them in the situation of combat.
 
Apocalypse said:
There is the Caracal Battalion:
Caracal Battalion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And there are very few females who serve in used-to-be male only combat units in Golani, Nahal, Kfir, Magav, Givati etc as fighters. I personally know such person even though they make a very small minority amongst female recruits. There are also some female jet pilots, a role that requires advanced combat skills.

Besides that, a lot of females such as my sister serve in roles that are labeled as "combat supporters" and are trained for non-front-line combat purposes, and there are also female soldiers that serve in roles where, while they are not intended to be used for combat purposes, they are trained for such since they are stationed in places that might put them in the situation of combat.
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That's roughly to my standard for the United States military.

So far only 1% of the female soldiers serving in the IDF are serving in, "combat roles". A, "combat role", doesn't necessarily imply that they are serving in combat arms units.
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But such statistics understate the actual numbers of women who fight.
 
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