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Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

apdst said:
They served in segregated units, too.

For the second time in this thread, it's not about a woman's ability to be a in infantry soldier.
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Segregated combat units would probably be the best way to implement this. I agree mixing them would be too trouble.
 
Your Star said:
Segregated combat units would probably be the best way to implement this. I agree mixing them would be too trouble.
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It'll never happen, though.

I've always believed that all units should be segregated, in the Army and the Marine Corps, anyway.
 
Your Star said:
Segregated combat units would probably be the best way to implement this. I agree mixing them would be too trouble.
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People said that about black people too.
 
Chappy said:
Women are perfectly capable of combat as the next guy and new restrictions like gender segregation have the effect of denying them the opportunities they have earned and deserve. There haven't been any well defined front lines since Korea (if then) and anybody in a combat zone had better be prepared for combat. Period.
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See, thi sis someone with no clue spewing political idealogical correctness instead of addressing the real issues.

Chappy, if you were correct, and you're not, why are the PRT standards between males and females different?
 
MrVicchio said:
3 pages before a lefty played the race card... a record?
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I wasn't playing "the race card" because my point had nothing to do with race. The point is that we said that about black people, but people got over it. People adapt.

Conservatives are so quick to play the race card card...
 
MrVicchio said:
See, thi sis someone with no clue spewing political idealogical correctness instead of addressing the real issues.

Chappy, if you were correct, and you're not, why are the PRT standards between males and females different?
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Because they measure overall fitness level and are not tests to determine ability.
 
Women should not be allowed in combat units. Not because they cant handle it or are not physically able to. Its because there is a primal instinct for a man to protect women. I believe there would be issuse with the men making sound desitions when a woman was in a life and death situation.
 
Redress said:
Because they measure overall fitness level and are not tests to determine ability.
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Nice Redress. Let's talk reality. The female body, biologically is less capable of carrying heavy loadouts. Are there women out there that can hump a 75lbs rucksack and full combat load with guys? I'm sure there are. How many really, and how many WANT to do that? Again this is a matter of what's good for the service vice what's politically correct. What about pregnancy in the field? Then there is the western culture bit of "protect the womenfolk" that most guys have.
The average American woman is 5'4", weighs 140 lbs, and wears a size 14 dress.

The "ideal" woman--portrayed by models, Miss America, Barbie dolls, and screen actresses--is 5'7", weighs 100 lbs, and wears a size 8.
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Average Male Weight

That shows the Average male is around 185. Males are naturally stronger, testosterone, are able to lift more, carry more and have greater endurance. This is just NATURE.

While I UNDERSTAND, truly I do that women want to be able to do everything, let's get real for a moment. Is it worth the potential problems that WILL arise, to appease a political sensibilities? I remember how pissed my father and his buddies were that they were letting women fly fighters. It wasn't so much that they wre incapable it was the reason given "For better promotion chances".

This is a bad idea, and I hope doesn't get adopted for many reasons, the top being the lives our of services members.
 
MrVicchio said:
Nice Redress. Let's talk reality. The female body, biologically is less capable of carrying heavy loadouts. Are there women out there that can hump a 75lbs rucksack and full combat load with guys? I'm sure there are. How many really, and how many WANT to do that? Again this is a matter of what's good for the service vice what's politically correct. What about pregnancy in the field? Then there is the western culture bit of "protect the womenfolk" that most guys have.


Average Male Weight

That shows the Average male is around 185. Males are naturally stronger, testosterone, are able to lift more, carry more and have greater endurance. This is just NATURE.

While I UNDERSTAND, truly I do that women want to be able to do everything, let's get real for a moment. Is it worth the potential problems that WILL arise, to appease a political sensibilities? I remember how pissed my father and his buddies were that they were letting women fly fighters. It wasn't so much that they wre incapable it was the reason given "For better promotion chances".

This is a bad idea, and I hope doesn't get adopted for many reasons, the top being the lives our of services members.
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Please read my comments in this thread, including the one you quoted(and what I was responding to), then get back to me with an actual response to what I said, not what you imagined I said. Thank you.
 
If a woman wants to play GI Jane that's one thing and it should be up to her to make that decision. However I believe they should always and forever be kept out of the draft except for possibly noncombat rolls, far behind the lines.

This would free up more male for combat, and we should always remember how most of feel when we hear about woman being tortured and almost always raped when captured.

But then I have an old fashion view of what traditional rolls are and should be.
 
I should not be allowed in an infantry combat unit... because I am no longer able to hump a 100 pounds of gear and ammo across ten miles of mountainous terrain. I'm too old and I have some back problems.

Nor should anyone else, regardless of their biological plumbing, be allowed in a combat unit if they cannot perform to the SAME standard expected of every other soldier in that unit.

If they can, fine.

The problem is that reduced requirements for females is already the rule... and if that is allowed to carry over to combat unit placement, this is going to be a problem.
 
Goshin said:
I should not be allowed in an infantry combat unit... because I am no longer able to hump a 100 pounds of gear and ammo across ten miles of mountainous terrain. I'm too old and I have some back problems.

Nor should anyone else, regardless of their biological plumbing, be allowed in a combat unit if they cannot perform to the SAME standard expected of every other soldier in that unit.

If they can, fine.

The problem is that reduced requirements for females is already the rule... and if that is allowed to carry over to combat unit placement, this is going to be a problem.
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Yep, totally agree. If a person can't live up to the standards that are in place, then tough luck. If they can, then they should be let in. That is true equality.

And for combat roles, those reduced requirements should go out the window. There is no reduced requirements in combat.
 
Goshin said:
The problem is that reduced requirements for females is already the rule... and if that is allowed to carry over to combat unit placement, this is going to be a problem.
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Not exactly accurate. The PFT is designed to measure overall physical health. Since women are different from men, the standard is different to get the same measure. Think of it this way, the average man in the US is 5 foot 9.5 inches, the average woman 5 foot 4. If you are testing men and women for how they compare to average height, you would need 2 scales.

The PFT does not measure your physical ability to do your job, it simply measures your healthiness. Men and women at a certain level of healthiness will get different results on a PFT. If we are testing physical ability to handle a combat job, that test would be different, and have the same standard for men and women. Such a test if it is not already in place would need to be.
 
ender1 said:
Women should not be allowed in combat units. Not because they cant handle it or are not physically able to. Its because there is a primal instinct for a man to protect women. I believe there would be issuse with the men making sound desitions when a woman was in a life and death situation.
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I tried to say that and a liberal told me it's not a primal instinct. Let's see if she goes after your reasoning as well.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
I tried to say that and a liberal told me it's not a primal instinct. Let's see if she goes after your reasoning as well.
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It's not, it's all social. I just don't like repeating myself.
 
Your Star said:
It's not, it's all social. I just don't like repeating myself.
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I disagree. For eons men have always defended women. It's natural. Even in other species. What societal norm tells a man to defend his wife? That's not society, that's the male ego, which is BRED INTO THE MALE. You aren't a male anyway, what do you know about this? You're a psycologist?
 
dontworrybehappy said:
I disagree. For eons men have always defended women. It's natural. Even in other species. What societal norm tells a man to defend his wife? That's not society, that's the male ego, which is BRED INTO THE MALE. You aren't a male anyway, what do you know about this? You're a psycologist?
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Correlation does not equal causation.

If in our society it wasn't taught that men are strong, and women are weak then it wouldn't be this way.
 
Cute one liner. How about you qualify yourself in this area or I'm going to call this one won by me, as I am a male and I know that society has never told me to protect women, however I feel a natural instinct to do so. So show me proof, or you're full of ****.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Cute one liner. How about you qualify yourself in this area or I'm going to call this one won by me, as I am a male and I know that society has never told me to protect women, however I feel a natural instinct to do so. So show me proof, or you're full of ****.
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Just because I got to the point, and didn't fluff it up you ignore my point, and go with the, since I don't have a penis I could never understand defense. Wow, just wow.

Anyway society teaches you to protect women from early childhood into adulthood. From when kids are young, boys are told not to hit girls, insinuating that we are more delicate, and need protecting by the adults from their usually rough play. And in adulthood men are urged to protect "the honor" of their girlfriends, wives, mothers, sisters, daughters.
 
Your Star said:
Just because I got to the point, and didn't fluff it up you ignore my point, and go with the, since I don't have a penis I could never understand defense. Wow, just wow.

Anyway society teaches you to protect women from early childhood into adulthood. From when kids are young, boys are told not to hit girls, insinuating that we are more delicate, and need protecting by the adults from their usually rough play. And in adulthood men are urged to protect "the honor" of their girlfriends, wives, mothers, sisters, daughters.
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Whether or not we were taught not to hit girls might matter who who is shooting at our girls, but I seriously doubt it would matter to us on this side.

I would venture to guess on the battlefield we would resort to primal instincts, not societal ones anyway. Its nice knowing that women know more about how a mans mind works than a man does. Amazing, you are amazing!
 
Men and women should be held to the same physical requirements in the military. The suitable levels of strength, endurance, etc have been established years ago and it's unsafe to put anyone in combat who can't meet these requirements. I don't know all the requirements as they are set now, but I had a friend who was in school at Annapolis and the physical requirements for the female students there were set pathetically low. I could have met those standards today without working too hard, and I don't do much of any strength training. I wouldn't be surprised if active duty females aren't held to much higher standards. I find it pretty insulting as a woman.

I find the argument that having women around would be too distracting for the men kind of funny. These are supposed to be some of the toughest, most focused, disciplined guys in the world but they can't fight with a girl around? This isn't middle school. Maybe they just need to suck it up and do their job.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Cute one liner. How about you qualify yourself in this area or I'm going to call this one won by me, as I am a male and I know that society has never told me to protect women, however I feel a natural instinct to do so. So show me proof, or you're full of ****.
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Who is full of ****, again?
:lamo
Sorry, gonna call this one definitely lost by you.
 
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