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Thread: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    on an IED? usually the "assault" would be comprised of tactical-site-exploitation (if victim initiated) or going after the trigger man (if not). or, if it was the iniatior for a larger ambush, dealing with that. but yes. generally the proper response to someone attacking you is to attack him right back and kill him. Even our POG's are taught from Boot Camp (before they go to combat training) that the proper response to a near ambush is to turn and assault.
    Ok, let me make sure I have a solid copy here: When your convoy is ambushed, you're going to halt the convoy, then you're going to deminish the convoy's security, just to go looking for a few sappers that are hiding in the bushes?

    and again. just speeding up and driving off leaving a vic with three of your guys in it behind is never acceptable.
    I can understand securing casualties. But, at the same time, I can't see getting an entire convoy wasted for a couple of dead bodies, either. There's the larger picture that has to be taken into account.
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, let me make sure I have a solid copy here: When your convoy is ambushed, you're going to halt the convoy, then you're going to deminish the convoy's security, just to go looking for a few sappers that are hiding in the bushes?



    I can understand securing casualties. But, at the same time, I can't see getting an entire convoy wasted for a couple of dead bodies, either. There's the larger picture that has to be taken into account.


    I "know a guy" who watched 2 Iraqi IPs burn to death. Iraqis were in a Ford Explorer loaded with their ammo, escorting US patrol through the city. IED hits their vehicle. Guy I know and his squad get out of their vehicle to assist, before they can reach the Iraqis the ammo starts going off due to the fire. literally thousands of rounds in all directions. guy I know, with much regret, orders his team back into their vehicle until explosions stop.

    question: did this guy make the right choice not to risk the lives of his squad on the slim chance to save the two iraqis? would it make a difference if it had been two US GIs?
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I "know a guy" who watched 2 Iraqi IPs burn to death. Iraqis were in a Ford Explorer loaded with their ammo, escorting US patrol through the city. IED hits their vehicle. Guy I know and his squad get out of their vehicle to assist, before they can reach the Iraqis the ammo starts going off due to the fire. literally thousands of rounds in all directions. guy I know, with much regret, orders his team back into their vehicle until explosions stop.

    question: did this guy make the right choice not to risk the lives of his squad on the slim chance to save the two iraqis? would it make a difference if it had been two US GIs?
    ****ty to say. but yeah, it makes a difference that they were IP's v. Marines.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, let me make sure I have a solid copy here: When your convoy is ambushed, you're going to halt the convoy, then you're going to deminish the convoy's security, just to go looking for a few sappers that are hiding in the bushes?
    My SOP when in vehicles was to drive through, getting a sitrep. If there were no casualties or disabled vehicles we might be directed to continue on, dependent on circumstaces (but this never turned out to be the case). If their were casualties/disabled vehicles we'd set up a security cordon w/ sweeps for possible secondary IEDs and secure the vehicles/casualties. If we received small arms fire we'd definitely return fire and assault through.


    I can understand securing casualties. But, at the same time, I can't see getting an entire convoy wasted for a couple of dead bodies, either. There's the larger picture that has to be taken into account.
    There were three times specifically we recieved small arms fire after an IED; each time we initiated the assault they quit the attack. On the sweep through they always ditched their weapons and lit out like a fart in the wind.

    Thing is, we usually went out ready for this sort of thing, and could respond as such without worrying about the bigger picture because if an HVT was being moved or some other time/mission dependent task was at stake we were reinforced before moving in the first place. That way some could continue and others could conduct the sweep and rejoin after securing casualties, calling med-evac, etc, if necessary. Though this setup was out of the ordinary. 9/10 times in these cases routes were cleared by engineers beforehand, too, and we had some damn good engineers.

    ...this was SOP in 2004...
    Last edited by other; 01-18-11 at 07:19 PM.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, let me make sure I have a solid copy here: When your convoy is ambushed, you're going to halt the convoy, then you're going to deminish the convoy's security, just to go looking for a few sappers that are hiding in the bushes?
    not at all. i'm going to halt the convoy to A) get my people who are wounded in the downed vic and B) kill the guys hiding in the bushes. depending on how i'm feeling. if i am tired i may just capture them so that someone back in the rear can interrogate them etc.

    btw. keeping the convoy together isnt' demolishing it's "security", it's maintaining your security. running away and leaving your rear vic behind is what demolishes your security.

    I can understand securing casualties. But, at the same time, I can't see getting an entire convoy wasted for a couple of dead bodies, either. There's the larger picture that has to be taken into account.
    1. these guys weren't dead
    2. nobody checked to see if they were
    3. if the enemy presents a chance to close with and destroy, close with and destroy. the "oh i don't want to get hurt" mentality will - in the end - hurt more.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-18-11 at 07:19 PM.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ****ty to say. but yeah, it makes a difference that they were IP's v. Marines.
    and it's worth pointing out that this ties back into the other conversation. it's because of that tight unit integrity that, had some of our guys been inside a cooking vehicle, someone would have gone for them.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ****ty to say. but yeah, it makes a difference that they were IP's v. Marines.
    I think this guy would've probably made the same decision had they been US troops. there was no way of knowing if the two guys in the truck even survived the initial explosion. not going to risk 8 lives to recover 2 bodies. I'd rather write the letter to the parents of the 2 guys in the truck than write letters to the parents of the two in the truck plus the two or three killed/maimed trying to get to them. the guy I know took two rounds to his body armor while still 50 meters away.
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    What about the few women who are on par? Too bad for the few women.

    How long will they be "on par" with men? For that moment they trained like hell? Vincent makes the case beyond physical qualifications in post #158.

    Then there is the fear standards will be lowered, or women will be brought in to make a statement.


    It was used to make a point how physically weak women are. There might be the one in ten million who is strong enough, has the stamina... for a while, and actually wants to fight. Too bad for her.

    .
    Men and women both need to maintain their strength and continue to meet the standards to serve. Might be one in ten million??? What exactly are these standards you think only 1 in 10,000,000 women could meet?

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I think this guy would've probably made the same decision had they been US troops.
    no comment there really possible. that's one of those decisions that whatever you decide to do, it can probably be justified.

    but if we had even the slightest inclination that any of our guys were in a vehicle that was on fire; we would have gone for them.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no comment there really possible. that's one of those decisions that whatever you decide to do, it can probably be justified.

    but if we had even the slightest inclination that any of our guys were in a vehicle that was on fire; we would have gone for them.
    yeah, i think this was one of those unique situations. it's not like they were facing a human enemy that they could kill or scare off. due to the heat from the fire, those thousands of rounds of ammo were going to be firing randomly until they were all expended. with zero cover, it would've been suicide to try to reach the truck under those circumstances.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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