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Thread: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

  1. #271
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Number of Marines Captured in Iraq and Afghanistan Combined: zero (though we had one go native).

    Number of Army Personnel Captured.... still rising.

    again, come on down to the thread in the warfare forum.

    i remember one time we were out combing for three Army guys who had gotten snatched, when over the radio (platoon net) we started up trying to figure out how they'd gotten captured in the first place. I was the CLIC, so I explained that they had been in a convoy that got hit by an IED, and the rest of the convoy had sped up, driven off, and not come back for the downed vic for almost half an hour. Platoon Sgt was furious, wanted to know if the Convoy Commander was going to get court-martialed, etc. I had to explain that it turned out that that was actually the units SOP for dealing with an IED attack... long pause, and then a (unidentified) long-suffering voice came over the net; "Well, if they're going to be retarted, I say **** em". you kinda had to be there, and looking back it was pretty ****ty of us considering those guys were for all we knew being tortured at that moment, but we laughed until we cried.

    So, what's the Corps's SOP? To stay in the kill zone? Please, tell me I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I happen to know that, but I do not see where the different gender problem kicks in.
    no cohabitation. for patently obvious reasons.

    I believe they are using the same water for the entire unit. If the water is hot for one soldier it is also hot for another.
    an unlimited supply of hot water in a shower facility? hells yeah! how the hell did you pull that off?

    If there's time for them to shower then there's time for 'that crap'.
    In the case of war you usually don't get to shower at all when you're deep within the field.
    exactly.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, what's the Corps's SOP? To stay in the kill zone? Please, tell me I'm wrong.
    Turn and assault. Engage in some damn maneuver warfare. Maybe (gosh this is crazy) provide some covering fire while you recover your wounded. Worst case scenario, destroy the radio and any equipment that can't be easily moved and get your people out. under no circumstances ever are you to leave three of your guys, wounded, in a downed vic while you flee to safety. In fact, if you were to order a Marine squad leader to do leave one of his teams, he would most likely simply mutiny. And the entire platoon would follow him. and then your platoon sgt (i have seen this) would slap you in the face with a kevlar and tell you to shut the **** up and sit the **** down.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-18-11 at 06:24 PM.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Fair enough, but I can tell you that female soldiers have indeed seen combat in the 2006 war in Lebanon and the 2009 one in Gaza. The former lasted 34 days and the latter three weeks.
    Not the same intensity and intensity is important.



    The "discovery" in '48 was rejected in '95 if I'm not wrong, and from there onwards female involvement in combat roles has been increasing drastically from year to year. Otherwise females would not have been allowed to serve in front-line combat units these days, right?
    It was rejected for political reasons. Not because the IDF commanders had an epiphany and decided that coed infantry units would be the best thing since sliced bread. The, "discovery", was made by the IDF and it was, "rejected", by a judge.



    I happen to know that, but I do not see where the different gender problem kicks in.
    That's one of the problems that will cause damage to unit cohesion.



    I believe they are using the same water for the entire unit. If the water is hot for one soldier it is also hot for another.
    Not if the females are being transported to a different area to get their hot shower, while the male soldiers are washing their nads in a bucket, next their foxhole.



    Shower time rotations, we also have it non-combat units, no problem there.
    Refer back to Oscar's post where he mentioned going 53 days without a shower.



    If there's time for them to shower then there's time for 'that crap'.
    In the case of war you usually don't get to shower at all when you're deep within the field.
    Which is exaclty the point I've been trying to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Turn and assault. under no circumstances ever are you to leave three of your guys, wounded, in a downed vic while you flee to safety.
    All the time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    All the time?
    yes. all the time we do not abandon Marines.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes. all the time we do not abandon Marines.
    I can see securing your casualties and making an attempt at destroying the vehicle, but you don't assault. Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not the same intensity and intensity is important.
    Very few wars in the history of the IDF were as intense as the 2006 Lebanon war.
    You brought up the six-day war, but this war was still less intense than the 2006 Lebanon war, it was only six-days long after all.

    Soldiers during the 2006 Lebanon war have had to keep up with constant battles for weeks and have not been sleeping or showering for days. I believe that's one perfect example there for you.

    It was rejected for political reasons. Not because the IDF commanders had an epiphany and decided that coed infantry units would be the best thing since sliced bread. The, "discovery", was made by the IDF and it was, "rejected", by a judge.
    The "discovery" was made in '48 when the IDF was a baby army, several days old.
    The rejection of that decision was made in '95, and the IDF would have not allowed it to happen was the supreme court decision such a devastating decision.

    That's one of the problems that will cause damage to unit cohesion.
    I still don't understand where's the damaging factor here. You're saying that because one of the unit brothers is a unit sister they would be less tied to each other as a unit?

    Not if the females are being transported to a different area to get their hot shower, while the male soldiers are washing their nads in a bucket, next their foxhole.
    Transported? During a war?

    Refer back to Oscar's post where he mentioned going 53 days without a shower.

    Which is exaclty the point I've been trying to make.
    Such concerns as letting a female on her day of the month have a hot shower are minor and during an actual war I believe they can be passed on.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I can see securing your casualties and making an attempt at destroying the vehicle, but you don't assault. Right?
    on an IED? usually the "assault" would be comprised of tactical-site-exploitation (if victim initiated) or going after the trigger man (if not). or, if it was the iniatior for a larger ambush, dealing with that. but yes. generally the proper response to someone attacking you is to attack him right back and kill him. Even our POG's are taught from Boot Camp (before they go to combat training) that the proper response to a near ambush is to turn and assault.

    and again. just speeding up and driving off leaving a vic with three of your guys in it behind is never acceptable.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-18-11 at 06:39 PM.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Very few wars in the history of the IDF were as intense as the 2006 Lebanon war.
    You brought up the six-day war, but this war was still less intense than the 2006 Lebanon war, it was only six-days long after all.
    Well, that's not exactly true. The Yom Kippur War saw the biggest tank battle, since WW2--the second biggest tank battle in history. Not only that, during Yom Kippur, the IDF saw 10,000 casualties. During the 06 war, the IDF saw less than 2,000. Yom Kippur was far more intense. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the IDF in 2006 are pussies, compared to the IDF in 1973, just saying that these were two different wars with two different levels of intensity.


    Soldiers during the 2006 Lebanon war have had to keep up with constant battles for weeks and have not been sleeping or showering for days. I believe that's one perfect example there for you.
    Entire days?



    The "discovery" was made in '48 when the IDF was a baby army, several days old.
    The rejection of that decision was made in '95, and the IDF would have not allowed it to happen was the supreme court decision such a devastating decision.
    Ok. I bet the IDF brass took the news the same way the American brass took the news of DADT being repealed.



    I still don't understand where's the damaging factor here. You're saying that because one of the unit brothers is a unit sister they would be less tied to each other as a unit?
    A male and a female, who didn't live together, won't be as close knit as two males who do live together. It's a well known and accepted fact.



    Transported? During a war?
    Soldiers also train together. Soldiers train together, before they fight together. The lasst thing you want is bad morale, before you ever deploy to the battlefield.



    Such concerns as letting a female on her day of the month have a hot shower are minor and during an actual war I believe they can be passed on.
    Until she breaks down, craps out and can't do her job, then she will have to be dusted off for medical treatment.

    Look, this isn't the 15th Century. A commander isn't going to tell a female soldier, who has a serious yeast infection that she's just going to have to deal with it. And, if he does, he won't be a commander very much longer after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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