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Thread: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    feel free to wonder on over to the military threads where we had this debate out; soldier. Though to be fair, there was one of me and three or four army bubba's; so admittedly they were outnumbered

    ...that's a good one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    feel free to wonder on over to the military threads where we had this debate out; soldier. Though to be fair, there was one of me and three or four army bubba's; so admittedly they were outnumbered
    I wish I had a dollar for every marine I had to scrape off the sidewalk because he believed that crap his drill told him about a marine being worth 10 soldiers.
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That argument doesn't work. If what your saying is true, we have to stop taking voluntary recruits from out of high school and start drafting from among people in their 20s.

    To the extent immaturity does exist among soldiers, it has to be purged, not indulged.
    I wouldn't call it "immaturity," I'd call it human nature. When you mix any appreciable number of men and women, under practically any circumstances, they're going to be going at it -- and there will be pregnancies, drama, and health issues -- rules, laws, or conditions bedamned. And that goes for people in their teens, 20s, 30s, and on up. I imagine there's un upper age limit where this rule is applicable, but that group's gonna be way too old to be combat effective.

    This becomes a problem when a unit doesn't have easy access to all the amenities people are generally used to in everyday life -- amenities which can be found on any major base, but not in a FOB that's basically an abandoned gas station reinforced with sandbags and scrap car-parts.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    it's not necessarily that they are too immature at all things; it's just that 19-21 year olds tend to be inordinately controlled by their sex organs. Discipline on patrol in a combat zone is very different (easier, in many ways) than discipline relaxing on the FOB. that same aggression and hyper-testosterone that makes one a good combat soldier / Marine also makes one more likely to not give a **** about what the rules say about whether or not you can have sex with the cute (and after a few months, they're all attractive) LCpl from dispersing. In addition, the tendency of stressful situations to throw the sex drive into overdrive is well documented.
    Those are all valid objections, but I don't think they are insurmountable obstacles.

    I wouldn't call it "immaturity," I'd call it human nature. When you mix any appreciable number of men and women, under practically any circumstances, they're going to be going at it -- and there will be pregnancies, drama, and health issues -- rules, laws, or conditions bedamned. And that goes for people in their teens, 20s, 30s, and on up. I imagine there's un upper age limit where this rule is applicable, but that group's gonna be way too old to be combat effective.

    This becomes a problem when a unit doesn't have easy access to all the amenities people are generally used to in everyday life -- amenities which can be found on any major base, but not in a FOB that's basically an abandoned gas station reinforced with sandbags and scrap car-parts.
    Thing is, I believe those are problems specific to having any women in the military at all, as opposed to a minority serving in combat roles.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 01-18-11 at 05:36 PM.
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    How am I playing "what if?"
    You are trying to take specific situations or "what ifs" as proof of something, it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Certain women have the physical capability to be front-line soldiers. That's true. Put them through a meritocratic process of selection.
    It is in my opinion and experience not worth the money or effort to do so. As soon as women can play professional sports with men, I would then change my tune. Until then it is not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Then there is the theory that somehow the men majority will not be able to reconcile themselves to the presence of a women minority, which is at least as theoretical as the idea that they will respond favorably. Both are "what-if's."
    I don't really agree with that argument anyway. I think solders can handle themselves but as with the incidents of Drill Instructors taking advantage of trainee's you are increasing the chances of such incidents.
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    lol, that's just what they want you to believe.
    I have a buddy who was in the 101st; which is supposedly one of the 'elite' divisions etc. I remember talking to him and he was complaining (he was an infantry platoon commander) because out of the previous 5 months, his guys had spent about a week and a half in the field with their weapons, and he was getting in trouble for pushing for more field evolutions. It blew me away. We were in the field (also infantry) every week from Tuesday morning through Thursday night; and that was when we were "in garrison". when we were on training deployments (which during one work up was about every other to every third month, and during the second was every single month) we typically spent 2-3 weeks in the field straight.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-18-11 at 05:43 PM.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Those are all valid objections, but I don't think they are insurmountable obstacles.
    they're not insurmountable; we will still do the job. more of us will just die doing it.


    that's sort of what we are trying to avoid, here.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Thing is, I believe those are problems specific to having any women in the military at all, as opposed to a minority serving in combat roles.
    And, as I mentioned, amenities and facilities to help cope with such situations are available on major bases where these issues do arise, but aren't insurmountable. Not the same at a FOB with a single squad and a single corpsman/medic available -- and where manpower is already at a premium.

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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I have a buddy who was in the 101st; which is supposedly one of the 'elite' divisions etc. I remember talking to him and he was complaining (he was an infantry platoon commander) because out of the previous 5 months, his guys had spent about a week and a half in the field with their weapons, and he was getting in trouble for pushing for more field evolutions. It blew me away. We were in the field (also infantry) every week from Tuesday morning through Thursday night; and that was when we were "in garrison". when we were on training deployments (which during one work up was about every other to every third month, and during the second was every single month) we typically spent 2-3 weeks in the field straight.
    you don't have to be living in the field to be training. work smarter, not harder.
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    Re: Women Should Be Allowed in Combat Units, Report Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    How does that matter exactly? How does the background of the combat they've seen matters as long as they've seen combat?
    Whether you are exchanging fire with hostiles during an all out war or are assaulted by militants during a sole incident you are still involved in combat and have thus 'seen combat'.
    Because combat, at any level, reduces a unit's combat power. The higher the intensity of the combat situation, the better a unit has to be to withstand the loss of more combat power. A three day battle that costs a unit 25% casualties will tell you more about the ability of that unit than a 30 minute firefight, where there are only a few WIA's.



    Forgive me for not reading all of your comments in this thread, what is it about then if not the ability of females to serve in roles that require the skills of combat and survivability?
    Ass the IDF discovered in '48, the propensity of male soldiers to fall out of the attack to aid a wounded female, even if she wass beyond help, moreso than they would for a wounded male, which weakened the assault effort.

    There are housing issues. Infantry units exhibit high levels of unit cohesion--higher than that of support arms units. One of the primary reasons for that, is that they all live together. There's a level of comaradeie that can only be achieved by soldiers living together. Personality conflicts are more readily resolved, because there's no going home at 5:00 and forgetting about the bad day at the office.

    There's also the hygene issue, what with women having bleeding cracks every month. In the U.S. Army, regulations state that a female soldier must be given access to a hot shower, during her cycle. As Oscar pointed out earlier, the chicks getting hot showers and the dudes having to wash their balls in a cold bucket of water is going to breed resentment and damage morale and unit cohesion.

    Then, there's the privacy issue. A female might refuse her hot shower and prefer to wash her cooter in a bucket, just like the guys, but she's going to want her privacy. And, God forbid someone accidentally see her washing her pussy; then she's going to be screaming sexual harrassment.

    We're talking about troops on a battlefield; there's no time for all that crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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