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Thread: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    BAD TREATY
    It's a meaningless treaty, except for the fact that for the first time offensive and defensive ballistic missiles are formally tied together. That is the sole problem with the treaty. All foreseeable problems flow from that fact.

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    "Americans have been taught that their nation is civilized and humane. But, too often, U.S. actions have been uncivilized and inhumane."
    ~Howard Zinn


    "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
    ...Howard Zinn
    And the point of posting this is...?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    And the point of posting this is...?
    Your signature reminded me of other things Zinn has said. I wanted to draw your attention to the irony of life in that the words of this dead leftist ideologue, pretend historian, are now being used by the Right against the Left. "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    The Rooskies can pull out at any time?

    Doesn't sound like much of a treaty, to me.

    Obama really went along with this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I think it's all posturing and this will in no way limit our efforts to defend outselves from the likes of North Korea and Iran, and that defending ourselves against Russia's arsenal is a pipe dream in the first place, not to mention nearly suicidal to even attempt.


    Less nukes makes us safer. End of story. That's why I support the treaty.
    I asked a straight forward question (several times) that you obviously refuse to answer. Like I said, we won’t move forward with the discussion you obviously want to direct us toward until you have enough integrity to deal with the topic of this post and my question.

    Saying that you “think it is all posturing” doesn’t answer the question, does it?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I am an American. Born and raised in New Jersey.
    Go Jets!!!


    I had to ask because I just don’t see why an American would think there is no need for a missile defense shield in Europe seeing as how Russia still has the nukes it had during the Cold War and even more nations in the world have, or will soon have, nukes that can hit our American Allies.

    It was the last sentence of your post that piqued my interest most and made me think you might be Russian rather than American: “Russia has a right to be worried about the US missile defense system, which is aimed at Russia

    Maybe I’m wrong here but I would think that most Americans would be more concerned with the safety of Americans and America’s allies than they would with Russia’s worries. I just don’t understand why you would take a position like this.
    Last edited by GPS_Flex; 01-17-11 at 02:32 AM.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Rooskies can pull out at any time?

    Doesn't sound like much of a treaty, to me.

    Obama really went along with this?
    It isn’t uncommon to have such “pull out” provisions in a treaty though. In fact, it would be rare if such a provision were omitted.

    On the flip side, most treaties do a lot more to detail the justification for a “pull out” than this one.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Go Jets!!!


    I had to ask because I just don’t see why an American would think there is no need for a missile defense shield in Europe seeing as how Russia still has the nukes it had during the Cold War and even more nations in the world have, or will soon have, nukes that can hit our American Allies.

    It was the last sentence of your post that piqued my interest most and made me think you might be Russian rather than American: “Russia has a right to be worried about the US missile defense system, which is aimed at Russia

    Maybe I’m wrong here but I would think that most Americans would be more concerned with the safety of Americans and America’s allies than they would with Russia’s worries. I just don’t understand why you would take a position like this.
    I am concerned for the safety of our allies and ourselves, but I also respect Russia and its sovereignty. I find it hard to believe that Russia would go and attack our European allies as there is no reason to, especially since Russia gives a lot of natural gas to our western European allies, as can be seen here.
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 01-17-11 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Added link/added word
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I am concerned for the safety of our allies and ourselves, but I also respect Russia and its sovereignty. I find it hard to believe that Russia would go and attack our European allies as there is no reason to, especially since Russia gives a lot of natural gas to our western European allies, as can be seen here.
    You certainly have a lot more faith in the very secretive and oppressive government, run by a former KGB boss, than I do. If Russia hadnít taken such a leap back towards despotism rule I would probably be more sympathetic to their concerns but Russia has/is helping other despot nations get nukes (China, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, and Pakistan) and still takes every opportunity it gets to poke a sharp stick in the eye of the US and NATO. If you think Russia no longer considers the US an adversary then you are mistaken.


    If everyone knows that missile defenses will never work, why would Russia be so opposed to them? Why is Russia so adamantly opposed to them being stationed in Europe?

    Perhaps Russia opposes them so vigorously because it knows they could/will work against nations that donít have 1000+ missiles? If missile defenses can negate the threat of Pakistani or Iranian or North Korean nuclear strikes on the US or our allies, Russia loses influence and power.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  10. #50
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    Re: Russia nears arms pact approval, warns on pullout

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You certainly have a lot more faith in the very secretive and oppressive government, run by a former KGB boss, than I do. If Russia hadnít taken such a leap back towards despotism rule I would probably be more sympathetic to their concerns but Russia has/is helping other despot nations get nukes (China, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, and Pakistan) and still takes every opportunity it gets to poke a sharp stick in the eye of the US and NATO. If you think Russia no longer considers the US an adversary then you are mistaken.


    If everyone knows that missile defenses will never work, why would Russia be so opposed to them? Why is Russia so adamantly opposed to them being stationed in Europe?

    Perhaps Russia opposes them so vigorously because it knows they could/will work against nations that donít have 1000+ missiles? If missile defenses can negate the threat of Pakistani or Iranian or North Korean nuclear strikes on the US or our allies, Russia loses influence and power.
    Proof that

    "Russia has/is helping other despot nations get nukes (China, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, and Pakistan)" [As far as I have seen, there has yet to be any definitive proof that Iran is trying to obtain nuclear weapons, only that they are enriching uranium, which is their right as a signatory of the NNPT

    Affirming the principle that the benefits of peaceful applications of nuclear technology, including any technological by-products which may be derived by nuclear-weapon States from the development of nuclear explosive devices, should be available for peaceful purposes to all Parties to the Treaty, whether nuclear-weapon or non-nuclear-weapon States
    Source

    Also, I think that Russia is opposed to the missile defense system because it threatens their sovereignty, especially when you look at how the US is doing things such as re-arming Georgia and how the US/NATO has moved into the Baltic.
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 01-18-11 at 02:08 PM. Reason: BB Code
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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