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Thread: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

  1. #11
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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    First you tell me when the issue became about a right to fly as opposed to the extent of government intervention in regards to travel.

    [Hey, I'm not the one who introduced the strawman]

    Also, Last I checked, safety, or the perception of it for that matter, doesn't completely trump the constitution - though I guess that will be more accurately gauged in the coming months when the courts sift through the lawsuits popping up. Remember, though they have ruled on airport security before, I don't think they've ever had to deal with anything /QUITE/ like the pat downs or body scanners. To apply the rulings there to here may be very disingenuous.

    Consider for example that the TSA is not law enforcement, and to do anything even close to resembling their behavior requires very specific circumstances or protocol BECAUSE of the fine lines between reasonable and unreasonable searches,e and a violation of the 4th Amendment.

    [IANAL of course]
    What strawman???? You say these scans are unConstitutional. You call up the 4th Amendment. So...here it is:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Now! I repeat myself (because you are ignoring the truth of my post): Tell me WHERE in the 4th Amendment it says body scans can't be used...with the full consent of the participants. Oh, and before you use THIS argument, cite where in the Constitution it says that everyone has an unfettered right to fly. I'll wait.

    I guess an MRI is unConstitutional. Huh?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  2. #12
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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    [ARTICLE]


    Un-be-****ing-lieveable.
    The government shouldn't even be archiving those images in the first place. Protecting us from terrorists my ass.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    with the full consent of the participants.
    This is the part that is the issue. If people aren't fully informed about what exactly they are consenting to, or the information they are being given is not honest and accurate, full consent is not possible.

    In order to have full consent, there needs ot be full disclosure. It seems that there is some disagreement regarding whether the information being given is accurate and honest.
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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    This is the part that is the issue. If people aren't fully informed about what exactly they are consenting to, or the information they are being given is not honest and accurate, full consent is not possible.

    In order to have full consent, there needs ot be full disclosure. It seems that there is some disagreement regarding whether the information being given is accurate and honest.
    Just what full disclosure do you need? It's a body scan. We've seen sample images. If one is predisposed to think there are guys getting their rocks off looking at them, what kind of full disclosure would resolve THAT problem? Ever wonder what goes on in a morgue at the hospital?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    This is the part that is the issue. If people aren't fully informed about what exactly they are consenting to, or the information they are being given is not honest and accurate, full consent is not possible.

    In order to have full consent, there needs ot be full disclosure. It seems that there is some disagreement regarding whether the information being given is accurate and honest.
    you should extend this argument to democracy and ask if the government should keep any secrets at all.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Just what full disclosure do you need? It's a body scan. We've seen sample images.
    I agree. It is entirely wrong to argue, as some on this thread have, that full consent cannot be given unless every participant is fully cognizant of the resolution of the body-scan images. That level of understanding is not necessary for informed consent. If you give your consent to have your picture taken, is your consent somehow rendered invalid because you don't know if it is a digital camera or not?

    What matters is that the person giving consent has a reasonable understanding of what they will be undergoing, as the airline passengers do here. There is simply no constitutional violation here, it completely boggles me how frivolous this argument is.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 01-14-11 at 11:19 AM.

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    Politically Correct

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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Couldn't they just get consent from a segment of people and release those images, if it would answer/settle/clarify things?

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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    you should extend this argument to democracy and ask if the government should keep any secrets at all.
    Why? Doing that would be stupid.

    This isn't about secrets, it's about the nature of consenting to a search and what full discolsure means.
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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Just what full disclosure do you need? It's a body scan.
    An X-ray is a body scan. An MRI is also body scan. They render completely different images. Just saying it's a body scan doesn't really inform anyone of what it is.


    We've seen sample images.
    And there is question about whether those images are doctored, and ther eis a question about whether those images are stored or transmittable.

    The issue of whether or not the search is actualy reasonable to begin with.

    If one is predisposed to think there are guys getting their rocks off looking at them, what kind of full disclosure would resolve THAT problem?
    They'd know exactly what they are consenting to.

    Ever wonder what goes on in a morgue at the hospital?
    Never.

    Have you ever wondered what goes on in Wilford Brimley's bedroom?
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    Re: Judge says government need not disclose air traveler security images

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    What matters is that the person giving consent has a reasonable understanding of what they will be undergoing, as the airline passengers do here. There is simply no constitutional violation here, it completely boggles me how frivolous this argument is.
    If they are being misinformed about what they will be undergoing, then they can't have a reasonable understanding of what they will be undergoing.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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