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Thread: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i missed it. please point out where in that post such conclusion was posited
    If tax cuts hurt the economy, then tax hikes should be great for it. Seems pretty simple to me.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If tax cuts hurt the economy, then tax hikes should be great for it. Seems pretty simple to me.
    good. then we all acknowledge that you made that **** up
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    good. then we all acknowledge that you made that **** up
    Nope, it's a logical conclusion based on how left perceives taxes. Thing is, at least I place my bias out for all to see, but like a weasel you hide yours behind phoney leaning labels. You can't admit to you bias openly, but it's plain to see by the way you post.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Then explain to me why the 2000s were the slowest decade (even if you stop counting it before the Great Recession) for economic growth since the Great Depression?

    Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth? - NYTimes.com

    Even if you discount the Great Recession, average economic growth in the 2000s was a mere 2.39% (if you include it, it was 1.66%). The 1970s - a decade we all know was pretty crappy - average growth was 3.29% - nearly TWICE as good as the 2000s.

    So if there's "never anything wrong" with tax cuts - why did the 2000s suck so much for the overall economy. And especially, why did it suck for nearly everyone except the top 1% of earners? I thought the Bush tax cuts were supposed to be "good for the economy". I see no evidence that they did anyone except the wealthiest Americans any good. And if those wealthiest Americans were supposed to create jobs with the money they get back from the government, why didn't that happen? Unemployment rates went from 4.2% to a peak high of 10.6% - ALL with the Bush tax cuts in force. So, why didn't those tax cuts create jobs? They didn't.

    Additionally, those oh-so-wonderful tax cuts, along with the Afghan and Iraq Wars are largely responsible for our annual budget deficits and amount to at least 10% more than stimulus and TARP combined. So, unless you're going to justify the tax cuts by cutting the spending FIRST, then you shouldn't simply celebrate tax cuts as being automatically good - especially when they are paired with two unfunded wars and are the single largest factor contributing to our deficit.

    Critics Still Wrong on What

    The myth that the pay for themselves is utterly false.

    Economist's View: The Myth That Tax Cuts Pay for Themselves

    This is just one of many studies who show that to be utterly false. Indeed, under the BEST economic circumstances, only 28% of lost revenues can be recouped by simple growth.

    Left to their own devices, indeed the Bush Tax Cuts would expand the deficit by 100% of GDP by 2050.

    Ezra Klein - The Bush tax cuts' effect on the deficit in one graph
    The 2000's were bad as a result of downsizing, offshoring, outsourcing, and all those other 'business concepts' that were put in place that had the combined effect that could be described as taking the foundation out of a house... enforcement of white collar laws was VERY weak, and so the 'good' foundation was replaced with a foundation of fraud...like replacing concrete with paper mache.

    The wars with Iraq and Afghanistan was the catalyst for a near doubling in the price of oil, and this caused a wave of self-preservation that exposed alot of these frauds, and so there's been schemes ever since to try and keep the house from falling apart... but everytime is like adding a new layer of pain to hide the cracks in the structure.

    Meanwhile to the wealthiest it was a big long party and everyone in the top 1% was invited.

    So, how again is there "never anything wrong" with less taxes? There is little evidence that there was anything right with the Bush tax cuts. Indeed, they are the largest single cause of the deficit, they left two wars unfunded (or paid for by our grandchildren, if not our great grandchildren), and did nothing to spark economic growth.

    If you argue that the stimulus hasn't done much for economic growth (and you could), then your argument would be based on the fact that post-recession, the average GDP growth is 2.918%, whereas Bush's decade overall was either 2.39% or 1.66%. So Obama's average GDP growth is already better than Bush's was. So the stimulus has produced a GDP that is higher than Bush's tax cuts could do and while they added to the deficit, they didn't add as much as the tax cuts and wars did.
    Well, it's not just as simple as cutting taxes, if you cut taxes and increase spending you are just adding to your debt load... as for Obama's 'improvement' to GDP... I've heard the analysis which was saying that if for every 1$ in GDP growth required 2-3$ of added debt, are you really any better off??

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Not really a concern. The recession did end in 2009, but recession and house prices dont have much to do with each other.
    Let me guess, you're going to tell me that unemployment is 9.2% still??

    Like it or not the housing market in the US went nuts for 10 years with massive price rises and that takes time to get back to what it should be. Some places will go faster, others slower, but with the exception of the uber rich areas most likely, then house prices are still going decline for a while yet.

    And it of course does not help that US banks are so screwed up that they dont loan people money any more, and of course the fact that the average US consumer debt is huge.. people cant get money to buy houses, and that will push prices down too.
    Yes you are right here... the market went insane on what turns out to be at the least a trifecta of fraud.
    1 - You got fraud of home buyers and lenders putting fraudulant information on forms in order to get a house that the buyer could not really afford.
    2 - Bundling those mortgages and selling them as 'asset backed securities'... meanwhile they would sift through these bundles and then split the good loans from the bad loans, the good ones were investments for friends, the bad ones were investments for everyone else.
    3 - These bad loan packages were rated as AAA investments when the actual values were closer to 'junk' or 'toxic'...

    Actually, it's probably more then a trifecta...
    Well, looks like your home was not the investment you first thought it was.

    Also, how can you claim that there's a healthy economy when people can't or won't buy a home??

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Lowering or raising taxes is going to have absolutely nothing to do with the prices of homes or mortgages or the stabilization of the housing market.

    Rather, there should be a re-writing of regulations with regards to the housing and mortgage markets. I'm not saying more or less regulations - just a re-writing of them to prevent the kind of fraud that made such a housing and mortgage bubble that was so damaging to our economy.
    Better then re-writing regulations, how about actually ENFORCING regulations... you know, not allow the types of fraud to take root in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    fully half those who received loan modifications thru obama's hamp (home affordable modification program) have redefaulted

    Half of U.S. Home Loan Modifications Default Again (Update1) - Bloomberg

    good money after bad, subprime methodologies on top of subprime failures, like heroin to an addict

    house oversight in pelosi's congress and tarp inspector general neil barofsky declare hamp a "miserable failure" which "actually harms the people it was intended to help"
    Ya... because those loan modification deals are designed to cause people to default. Miss 1 payment and you've defaulted.

    Go back to those stories of 150 years ago, where the bank would collect on the mortgage for 20 years and then refuse the final payment and take the ranch... the banks don't want you to own your home, they want you to pay them for life.

    Obama Loan-Modification Effort

    how many of these people the us taxpayer is subsidizing are living in newer, larger and more upgraded homes than you?

    and where are the results?

    the collapse of housing is what brought us here

    and there's still no basement in sight

    that's a catastrophic concern to the masses of folks with killer mortgages on homes now worth so much less than what they paid, to all the industries dependent on real estate and construction...
    Agreed.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ya... because those loan modification deals are designed to cause people to default. Miss 1 payment and you've defaulted.
    Shoot, you don't even have to miss a payment. They just say you did. Dave Ramsay said this is happening to a LOT of people.

    This is a huge story that isn't going reported.
    Last edited by Erod; 01-13-11 at 01:23 PM.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Individually, who cares. My home price has stayed roughly even. New homes in my area have dropped some, making it easier for me to purchase one if I desire, which could be a good investment. What's all the fuss.

    Averaged national statistics are interesting to investors, economists, and maybe for forming strategies, but in the day to day it's not really all that relevant. Home prices bubbled for a long time, and I know some areas that dropped by 100%. Market resetting is healthy. It's painful for those caught in it, but it's ultimately good overall.

    If you just lost 20% on a home, OK, that sucks. You may still lose a little more. Then again, as an investor, you should expect this, and be prepared for it, so while it's blah news, it shouldn't be "the sky is falling" type of a reaction.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    keep in mind, before the collapse, for 60 years the US government was doing everything it could to convince the majority of its populace to invest in a single market, and to do so heavily leveraged. this picked up even quicker in the 70's with the community reinvestment act, then again with an update of that act in the 90's, then again with cheap money during greenspan's and bernanke's tenure at helm.

    none of these policies have changed, we've committed huge amounts of fraud to keep them going. this is why fannie and freddie still exist. doesn't mean that everyone believes in the hugely inflated prices, which now results in a huge drop in prices.

    i'm sure, even those that still fervently believe in the two party dynamic, can see the ills caused by being highly leveraged and all in one market at the same time.

    also keep in mind that the buying power of all americans, with the glaring exception of the top quintile, has decreased every year since we left the gold standard in the early 70's. (imagine how pissed you'd be if you found out all this was planned at a meeting of global bankers on jekyll island in 1910.)
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Individually, who cares. My home price has stayed roughly even. New homes in my area have dropped some, making it easier for me to purchase one if I desire, which could be a good investment. What's all the fuss.

    Averaged national statistics are interesting to investors, economists, and maybe for forming strategies, but in the day to day it's not really all that relevant. Home prices bubbled for a long time, and I know some areas that dropped by 100%. Market resetting is healthy. It's painful for those caught in it, but it's ultimately good overall.

    If you just lost 20% on a home, OK, that sucks. You may still lose a little more. Then again, as an investor, you should expect this, and be prepared for it, so while it's blah news, it shouldn't be "the sky is falling" type of a reaction.
    It's only a big deal if you lose your job and have to sell. Or, if you couldn't afford it in the first place.

    But, yes, if you can make the payment, just chill out and wait for the worm to turn. A house is worth nothing unless you sell it anyway.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    keep in mind, before the collapse, for 60 years the US government was doing everything it could to convince the majority of its populace to invest in a single market, and to do so heavily leveraged. this picked up even quicker in the 70's with the community reinvestment act, then again with an update of that act in the 90's, then again with cheap money during greenspan's and bernanke's tenure at helm.

    none of these policies have changed, we've committed huge amounts of fraud to keep them going. this is why fannie and freddie still exist. doesn't mean that everyone believes in the hugely inflated prices, which now results in a huge drop in prices.

    i'm sure, even those that still fervently believe in the two party dynamic, can see the ills caused by being highly leveraged and all in one market at the same time.

    also keep in mind that the buying power of all americans, with the glaring exception of the top quintile, has decreased every year since we left the gold standard in the early 70's. (imagine how pissed you'd be if you found out all this was planned at a meeting of global bankers on jekyll island in 1910.)
    Why is it the government encourages us to manage our money like them?

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Individually, who cares. My home price has stayed roughly even. New homes in my area have dropped some, making it easier for me to purchase one if I desire, which could be a good investment. What's all the fuss.

    Averaged national statistics are interesting to investors, economists, and maybe for forming strategies, but in the day to day it's not really all that relevant. Home prices bubbled for a long time, and I know some areas that dropped by 100%. Market resetting is healthy. It's painful for those caught in it, but it's ultimately good overall.

    If you just lost 20% on a home, OK, that sucks. You may still lose a little more. Then again, as an investor, you should expect this, and be prepared for it, so while it's blah news, it shouldn't be "the sky is falling" type of a reaction.
    this guy's got some serious issues. at the beginning of the housing collapse, most credit was related to home ownership. same with most construction, all the furniture and other garbage we fill our houses with. a substantial amount of our economy was based on this idea of the never ending housing bubble. so, anyone participating in the economy at all cares in one way or another about the housing bubble.

    i doubt you know of any area that dropped 100% in house values, since that means the houses are worth $0. even houses flooded in katrina didn't lose 100% of their value since they still sat on land with value.

    this by itself doesn't mean the sky is falling, but if you look at it as one piece in a complete puzzle, yes the sky is figuratively falling. but you'd never get that idea watching american idle and monday night football.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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