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Thread: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the HAMP program in no way propped up property values
    it was a program devised to allow home buyers with adequate cash flow - after loan modifiation - to repay their mortgages
    the only implication of home value was these loan mod recipients tended to be those who were trying to pay off mortgages having a higher basis than the underlying value of the home (loan collateral)
    that those homes were not subject to foreclosure proceedings limited the number of properties found where evaluating comparables for valuation purposes. had they been sold at distress sale, they likely would have had a downward impact on the market values of similar properites in the buying area
    otherwise, the HAMP program had no impact on property valuation
    i swear, it had no effect on the value except for the effect it had on the value.

    i don't have enough juice in these tired fingers to straighten out your twisted logic.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    i swear, it had no effect on the value except for the effect it had on the value.

    i don't have enough juice in these tired fingers to straighten out your twisted logic.
    had those homes been allowed to go into foreclosure, THEN their diminished - distress sale - values would have been available for a correlation of market value in the buying region
    but they were not subject to foreclosure, thus keeping their values out of the database of recent sales ... which means their impact on current market value was nil
    see how embarrassing it can be when it is obvious you have no idea about the subject of discussion
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    BS

    The vast majority of subprime loans were made by lenders not subject to the CRA

    Countrywide, Ditech etc were not subject to the CRA regulation (which had very little in the way of punishement) and made subprime loans, and then sold them in CDO's
    the question was rarely one of punishment as it was one of being constrained. want permission to put out an ATM machine or set up a branch office? well let's see what your local community organization says about your attitude towards hispanic home-buyers, etc. banks of all stripes definitely faced political pressure to lend to those whom they knew could not pay them back. but hey, as long as we can securitize the things and/or sell them off to Fannie and Freddie, who cares, eh?

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    had those homes been allowed to go into foreclosure, THEN their diminished - distress sale - values would have been available for a correlation of market value in the buying region
    see, what you are missing is that their "diminished" value is closer to their "actual" value. if the homebuyers could not afford their mortgages, then those homes should have gone back onto the market, with the subsequent downward pressure in price.


    supply. demand. not really that complicated.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    see, what you are missing is that their "diminished" value is closer to their "actual" value. if the homebuyers could not afford their mortgages, then those homes should have gone back onto the market, with the subsequent downward pressure in price.


    supply. demand. not really that complicated.
    and what we recognize is that the HAMP program is what kept those homes' discounted values from the marketplace, allowing us to see that HAMP did not alter the valuation of the market place
    the residents of those HAMP homes were able to pay their mortgages due to the loan modifications - based on repayment ability and NOT on collateral value
    that was the point which caused me to make this distinction
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    had those homes been allowed to go into foreclosure, THEN their diminished - distress sale - values would have been available for a correlation of market value in the buying region
    but they were not subject to foreclosure, thus keeping their values out of the database of recent sales ... which means their impact on current market value was nil
    see how embarrassing it can be when it is obvious you have no idea about the subject of discussion
    You sure sound like a bank appraiser. Overvaluing properties, allowing yourself to be influenced by the banks' interest. That's one of the reasons the housing market collapsed.

    Edit: Stop showing us your lack of knowledge.
    Last edited by Albert Di Salvo; 01-14-11 at 05:28 PM.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    BS


    The vast majority of subprime loans were made by lenders not subject to the CRA

    Countrywide, Ditech etc were not subject to the CRA regulation (which had very little in the way of punishement) and made subprime loans, and then sold them in CDO's
    Report Revealing New VIPs Shows How Countrywide Used Mortgage Deals to Buy Influence, Block Reforms

    More Reasons to Hate Countrywide, Angelo Mozilo Dealbreaker: A Wall Street Tabloid – Business News Headlines and Financial Gossip


    FT.com / Financials - MBIA sues Countrywide Financial

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    Student Zyroh's Avatar
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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    had those homes been allowed to go into foreclosure, THEN their diminished - distress sale - values would have been available for a correlation of market value in the buying region
    but they were not subject to foreclosure, thus keeping their values out of the database of recent sales ... which means their impact on current market value was nil
    see how embarrassing it can be when it is obvious you have no idea about the subject of discussion
    i'll try to use small words for you. you were claiming the hamp program wasn't an attempt to reinflate the bubble. i'll put the case-shiller evidence aside for the moment and just focus on this case you're mentioning. if there was no hamp, the 700k houses woulda gone into foreclosure and increased supply in the market, and that would have allowed the slide to continue. instead hamp kept them in the house and kept the house off the market, so there was no addition to the supply on the market for those specific houses.

    i understand your logic, it doesn't mean it's not flawed. you think that since the houses didn't get added to the market, the hamp program didn't effect prices. hamp slowed down the speed of decline of the houses. it doesn't stop it, it just delayed it at a tremendous cost.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    the banks you're refering to already got paid, they're not holding this debt, we are. (it would save everyone so much time if you'd read my posts ha!) bofa gs jpm citi all of them created these programs to get the toxic debt. then they wrapped them up in cdo's, then they sold them to gse's, the fed, and pensions. each one of those are backed by you and me. the banks made profit, and now are not responsible for the mess.
    Except that the real cash isn't there. They got paid on paper, not in cash.

    Hence, this is why you've got to have serious capital to put down and excellent to buy a house right now. That is, IF you can sell the one you've got.

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    Re: Home price drops exceed Great Depression: Zillow

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    i'll try to use small words for you. you were claiming the hamp program wasn't an attempt to reinflate the bubble. i'll put the case-shiller evidence aside for the moment and just focus on this case you're mentioning. if there was no hamp, the 700k houses woulda gone into foreclosure and increased supply in the market, and that would have allowed the slide to continue. instead hamp kept them in the house and kept the house off the market, so there was no addition to the supply on the market for those specific houses.

    i understand your logic, it doesn't mean it's not flawed. you think that since the houses didn't get added to the market, the hamp program didn't effect prices. hamp slowed down the speed of decline of the houses. it doesn't stop it, it just delayed it at a tremendous cost.
    your conclusion is quite flawed
    there is reason to anticipate that 700,000 houses will NOT appear on the foreclosure market due to the limited success of the HAMP loan modifications
    so, HAMP did not impact the value of the marketplace
    absent HAMP, the likely added foreclosures would have added to the downward spiral of market valuation
    HAMP did not delay any slide
    but glad you are paying attention and taking notes!
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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