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Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

VanceMack said:
Morality is a wonderful construct discussed by people that have never had to lift a finger to defend themselves or the country. Morality is wonderful to talk about while other people are being asked to (and in some cases ordered to) take extraordinary measures to secure a nation against people that chant happily their praises to their God while they saw off the heads of 12 year old children. Morality is a wonderful thing...provided you dont have to actually do anything. You speak about this **** like you have a clue about it. Thats why defense of the country is left to people that actually are willing to fight and do what is needed. Thats why chicken****s like you arent in that position. thats why people like candidate Obama can sing you pretty songs and rock you to sleep. Thats why President Obama had to open his eyes wide and step into the real world. Thats why President Obama has reneged on his camapign promises.

That DOESNT expalin why people like you dont express the same outrage towards President Obama as you do towards President Bush. Mindless blind political ideology and hypocrisy expalins that.
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Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.
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Its funny that you think you can justify a continued existence of GITMO and stepped up black-ops actions and denial of constitutional rights...all things Obama said he opposed...because '''well...someone else did it first!" :lamo
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.
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Do you think what Obama's action on Libya was legal?

Here's what a "Constitutional Expert" had to say on the subject.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch".

You'll never guess!!

Hint: His initials are BHO.
 
Grant said:
Do you think what Obama's action on Libya was legal?

Here's what a "Constitutional Expert" had to say on the subject.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch".

You'll never guess!!

Hint: His initials are BHO.
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I think you're wrong to a small degree. While I certainly prefer that congress declare war when we enter into a war, we have signed agreements with the UN. These agreements did go through congress. And we have agreed to provide support to a UN action. Libya was a UN action and not soley a US action. This difference should be clear.

And yes, Obama was right then. But he is not invading or planning to occupy Libya. He is supporting the UN. This is different than what we did when we invaded Iraq. I supported the first Iraq war. I even understood Afghanistan. Bush didn't lose his mind until he invaded iraq absent anything that would honestly justify such an action.
 
VanceMack said:
Its funny that you think you can justify a continued existence of GITMO and stepped up black-ops actions and denial of constitutional rights...all things Obama said he opposed...because '''well...someone else did it first!" :lamo
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Not exactly what I have done. I don't support those things, but point out not just that Bush started them, making the errors that making closing GITMO difficult, but that others are involved in making sure it doesn't happen. You want to pretend that only Obama is involved here. That is simply factually incorrect.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.
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You served in peacetime. your appeal to authority doesn't count if you never been to the dance brother. VanceMack is exactly right here. You excuse your side while attacking the other.

And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.
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GITMO closed yet?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You served in peacetime. your appeal to authority doesn't count if you never been to the dance brother. VanceMack is exactly right here. You excuse your side while attacking the other.
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Yes, it is true it was peacetime. But I was willing and able. So, I disagree with his point, as silly as it is. Morality and core values shold not be so malleable as to be be nothing more than an after thought. You ether believe in and live the ideals, or they are not your ideals.


GITMO closed yet?
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Is only one person responsible for that? Be honest now. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
Not exactly what I have done. I don't support those things, but point out not just that Bush started them, making the errors that making closing GITMO difficult, but that others are involved in making sure it doesn't happen. You want to pretend that only Obama is involved here. That is simply factually incorrect.
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Dont be continually foolsih. I dont see only one side...I support BOTH presidents, while you merely denigrate the one, but remain...well..kida disappointed...mayeb a little sad...but mostly...fully supportive of Obama. Bush was RIGHT...and Obama is right in adopting Bush's policies. We arent talking about capturing the FBI's most wanted In Union Junction Oklahoma using arrest warrants. We are talking about combating global terrorism. Obama had to grow up a little and step beyond his flowery campaign speeches. Its you that continually wants to pretend things arent what they are. Not only has Obama refused to close GITMO, endorsed military tribunals, but he has also rescinded his promise to offer constitutional protections, has increased black ops snatch and grabs, and increased black -ops prison use in Afghanistan. You dont care about those things and instead maintain blindly that its not his fault cuz Bush did it.
 
VanceMack said:
Dont be continually foolsih. I dont see only one side...I support BOTH presidents, while you merely denigrate the one, but remain...well..kida disappointed...mayeb a little sad...but mostly...fully supportive of Obama. Bush was RIGHT...and Obama is right in adopting Bush's policies. We arent talking about capturing the FBI's most wanted In Union Junction Oklahoma using arrest warrants. We are talking about combating global terrorism. Obama had to grow up a little and step beyond his flowery campaign speeches. Its you that continually wants to pretend things arent what they are. Not only has Obama refused to close GITMO, endorsed military tribunals, but he has also rescinded his promise to offer constitutional protections, has increased black ops snatch and grabs, and increased black -ops prison use in Afghanistan. You dont care about those things and instead maintain blindly that its not his fault cuz Bush did it.
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They are not equal, and not doing the same. if you cannot see differences, this is the essence of bais. And no, Bush was not right. He lost his foolish mind. He showed he held no core values, and harm America in many, many ways. Obama is a step better, but only a step. Obama knows torture is wrong. He has been trying to close GITMO. He has not invaded another country outside the law and without any legal or moral jusitication. In fact, he hasn't actually invaded a country at all.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, it is true it was peacetime. But I was willing and able. So, I disagree with his point, as silly as it is. Morality and core values shold not be so malleable as to be be nothing more than an after thought. You ether believe in and live the ideals, or they are not your ideals.
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Everyone has a plan until the 1st 7.62 wizzes by. You appealed to your service, it wasn't relevant in this case....



Is only one person responsible for that? Be honest now. :coffeepap
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Right now? there is only one, the guy who promised to close it....
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Everyone has a plan until the 1st 7.62 wizzes by. You appealed to your service, it wasn't relevant in this case....
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Appealed? You might want to look that word up.


Right now? there is only one, the guy who promised to close it....
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That would be factualy inaccurate.
 
Boo Radley said:
They are not equal, and not doing the same. if you cannot see differences, this is the essence of bais. And no, Bush was not right. He lost his foolish mind. He showed he held no core values, and harm America in many, many ways. Obama is a step better, but only a step. Obama knows torture is wrong. He has been trying to close GITMO. He has not invaded another country outside the law and without any legal or moral jusitication. In fact, he hasn't actually invaded a country at all.
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And Bush was SO wrong that Obama has expanded the practice, denies terrorists constitutional rights, and continues to expand snatch and grabs and the use of black ops prisons in Afghanistan. Its all Bush's fault! :lamo

Your position on this is myopic and pathetic.
 
VanceMack said:
And Bush was SO wrong that Obama has expanded the practice, denies terrorists constitutional rights, and continues to expand snatch and grabs and the use of black ops prisons in Afghanistan. Its all Bush's fault! :lamo

Your position on this is myopic and pathetic.
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Expanded? No. He clearly stated torture was wrong. Something Bush refused to do, as Bush simply made excuses to torture. For example.

And you fail to address the other point, and acknowledge those who have hinder Obama's efforts to close GITMO. Is it because you really do know I'm right about this?

But do link something credibile that supports your claim. I would love to examine it.
 
Boo Radley said:
Expanded? No. He clearly stated torture was wrong. Something Bush refused to do, as Bush simply made excuses to torture. For example.

And you fail to address the other point, and acknowledge those who have hinder Obama's efforts to close GITMO. Is it because you really do know I'm right about this?

But do link something credibile that supports your claim. I would love to examine it.
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He is so terribly hindered he has expanded black ops snatch in grabs in 75 countries, up from the 60 by Bush. He has increased the use of black ops prisons in Afghnaistan. All of those have been linked and posted in the past but you conveniently ignore the reality that AObama is SOOO upset about GITMO that he does the same thing and more in other countries. And face it...for all your winging and whining about Bush and GITMO, there is a reason you dont address the other places...because it just makes your position that much more foolish.

Like I said before...Obama has grown up from his silky campaign speeches and stepped into the real world...something you and people like you never have and never will do.
 
VanceMack said:
He is so terribly hindered he has expanded black ops snatch in grabs in 75 countries, up from the 60 by Bush. He has increased the use of black ops prisons in Afghnaistan. All of those have been linked and posted in the past but you conveniently ignore the reality that AObama is SOOO upset about GITMO that he does the same thing and more in other countries. And face it...for all your winging and whining about Bush and GITMO, there is a reason you dont address the other places...because it just makes your position that much more foolish.

Like I said before...Obama has grown up from his silky campaign speeches and stepped into the real world...something you and people like you never have and never will do.
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By all means, link your source. As I said, I would love to examine it.

A search came up with almost nothing. Your exact sentence however can be found here:

Obama Has Expanded Cheney's "Black Ops" Worldwide; Prisoner Abuse Exposed at "Special Operations" Prison in Afghanistan

And that is hardly a sound source.

So, I ask again, do you have a credible source?
 
Boo Radley said:
The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it
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and john kerry, jim webb, daniel inouye, jay rockefeller, ron wyden, harry reid and 43 other dem senators, as well as 144 in nancy's condensed caucus, aren't?

LOL!
 
Boo Radley said:
while you want to ignore the obsticles (sic) he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts.
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who's pretending?

obama still WANTS to close gitmo

it's just that he CAN'T

cuz he's WEAK

it's his WEAKNESS that accounts for his dismal DEFEAT on this front

ask the EIGHTY PERCENT of his party in congress

sorry
 
and what exactly are the obsticles preventing impotent obama from ending the PATRIOT ACT

or DETENTION

or RENDITION

what's going on with that PROSECUTION of the cia

obsticles, obsticles...

they're EVERYWHERE

LOL!
 
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The Prof said:
who's pretending?

obama still WANTS to close gitmo

it's just that he CAN'T

cuz he's WEAK

it's his WEAKNESS that accounts for his dismal DEFEAT on this front

ask the EIGHTY PERCENT of his party in congress

sorry
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You may criticize him for being weak on this. I would agree. You may criticize him for not being able to control his own party. I would agree. But don't pretend he is acting as he wants with no influence or obstacles.
 
Boo Radley said:
What do you need? We were not being attacked, no attack was imminent. We can't use the UN as we were outisde the UN, which is what coalition of the willing means. It was an aggressive act with no legal jsutification. Is the reasoning any more valid if I quote someone? If you agree to accept it, I'll quote more than a few folks. :coffeepap
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Bush had congressional approval and two UN resolutions. Obama doesn't haven't anything more than his dick in his hand.
 
Boo Radley said:
You may criticize him for being weak on this.
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may?

LOL!

I would agree.
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now you're getting it!

You may criticize him for not being able to control his own party.
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again...

I would agree.
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that's only part of it

ie, kerry and reid and rockefeller and schumer and the other 46 might just have a point

they certainly think they do

but who listens to them

But don't pretend
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pretending is for kids, chairman

obstacles.
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ATTABOY!
 
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Prof, you may be the most immature poster I know. You offer little in way of reasoning and thought, mindlessly link articles, making little to no rational explanation, and seldom if ever actually listen to the arguments presented. This is why I seldom respond to you.

But, you and others are pretending that two different things are qual when they are not, and that Obama has not had any obstacles in his path. It is also dishonest to do that.
 
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