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Thread: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Morality is a wonderful construct discussed by people that have never had to lift a finger to defend themselves or the country. Morality is wonderful to talk about while other people are being asked to (and in some cases ordered to) take extraordinary measures to secure a nation against people that chant happily their praises to their God while they saw off the heads of 12 year old children. Morality is a wonderful thing...provided you dont have to actually do anything. You speak about this **** like you have a clue about it. Thats why defense of the country is left to people that actually are willing to fight and do what is needed. Thats why chicken****s like you arent in that position. thats why people like candidate Obama can sing you pretty songs and rock you to sleep. Thats why President Obama had to open his eyes wide and step into the real world. Thats why President Obama has reneged on his camapign promises.

    That DOESNT expalin why people like you dont express the same outrage towards President Obama as you do towards President Bush. Mindless blind political ideology and hypocrisy expalins that.
    Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

    And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #352
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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

    And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.
    Its funny that you think you can justify a continued existence of GITMO and stepped up black-ops actions and denial of constitutional rights...all things Obama said he opposed...because '''well...someone else did it first!"

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

    And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.
    Do you think what Obama's action on Libya was legal?

    Here's what a "Constitutional Expert" had to say on the subject.

    "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

    As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch".

    You'll never guess!!

    Hint: His initials are BHO.

  4. #354
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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you think what Obama's action on Libya was legal?

    Here's what a "Constitutional Expert" had to say on the subject.

    "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

    As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch".

    You'll never guess!!

    Hint: His initials are BHO.
    I think you're wrong to a small degree. While I certainly prefer that congress declare war when we enter into a war, we have signed agreements with the UN. These agreements did go through congress. And we have agreed to provide support to a UN action. Libya was a UN action and not soley a US action. This difference should be clear.

    And yes, Obama was right then. But he is not invading or planning to occupy Libya. He is supporting the UN. This is different than what we did when we invaded Iraq. I supported the first Iraq war. I even understood Afghanistan. Bush didn't lose his mind until he invaded iraq absent anything that would honestly justify such an action.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its funny that you think you can justify a continued existence of GITMO and stepped up black-ops actions and denial of constitutional rights...all things Obama said he opposed...because '''well...someone else did it first!"
    Not exactly what I have done. I don't support those things, but point out not just that Bush started them, making the errors that making closing GITMO difficult, but that others are involved in making sure it doesn't happen. You want to pretend that only Obama is involved here. That is simply factually incorrect.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, as one who served, I think you're just making an excuse. Morality is something we all should understand. Nothing our enemy has done justifies us losing our moral center. Nothing done justifies torture or invading a nation on a pretext.

    You served in peacetime. your appeal to authority doesn't count if you never been to the dance brother. VanceMack is exactly right here. You excuse your side while attacking the other.


    And Obama didn't open GITMO, didn't invade a ****ry on a pretext outside the law, and never condoned torture. There is a difference. And while you want to ignore the obsticles he has faced, pretending that he changed his mind because he now believes it should be open, that is simply not consistent with the facts. The difference between myself and you is that I'm looking at all of it. You're not.

    GITMO closed yet?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You served in peacetime. your appeal to authority doesn't count if you never been to the dance brother. VanceMack is exactly right here. You excuse your side while attacking the other.
    Yes, it is true it was peacetime. But I was willing and able. So, I disagree with his point, as silly as it is. Morality and core values shold not be so malleable as to be be nothing more than an after thought. You ether believe in and live the ideals, or they are not your ideals.


    GITMO closed yet?
    Is only one person responsible for that? Be honest now.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not exactly what I have done. I don't support those things, but point out not just that Bush started them, making the errors that making closing GITMO difficult, but that others are involved in making sure it doesn't happen. You want to pretend that only Obama is involved here. That is simply factually incorrect.
    Dont be continually foolsih. I dont see only one side...I support BOTH presidents, while you merely denigrate the one, but remain...well..kida disappointed...mayeb a little sad...but mostly...fully supportive of Obama. Bush was RIGHT...and Obama is right in adopting Bush's policies. We arent talking about capturing the FBI's most wanted In Union Junction Oklahoma using arrest warrants. We are talking about combating global terrorism. Obama had to grow up a little and step beyond his flowery campaign speeches. Its you that continually wants to pretend things arent what they are. Not only has Obama refused to close GITMO, endorsed military tribunals, but he has also rescinded his promise to offer constitutional protections, has increased black ops snatch and grabs, and increased black -ops prison use in Afghanistan. You dont care about those things and instead maintain blindly that its not his fault cuz Bush did it.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dont be continually foolsih. I dont see only one side...I support BOTH presidents, while you merely denigrate the one, but remain...well..kida disappointed...mayeb a little sad...but mostly...fully supportive of Obama. Bush was RIGHT...and Obama is right in adopting Bush's policies. We arent talking about capturing the FBI's most wanted In Union Junction Oklahoma using arrest warrants. We are talking about combating global terrorism. Obama had to grow up a little and step beyond his flowery campaign speeches. Its you that continually wants to pretend things arent what they are. Not only has Obama refused to close GITMO, endorsed military tribunals, but he has also rescinded his promise to offer constitutional protections, has increased black ops snatch and grabs, and increased black -ops prison use in Afghanistan. You dont care about those things and instead maintain blindly that its not his fault cuz Bush did it.
    They are not equal, and not doing the same. if you cannot see differences, this is the essence of bais. And no, Bush was not right. He lost his foolish mind. He showed he held no core values, and harm America in many, many ways. Obama is a step better, but only a step. Obama knows torture is wrong. He has been trying to close GITMO. He has not invaded another country outside the law and without any legal or moral jusitication. In fact, he hasn't actually invaded a country at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, it is true it was peacetime. But I was willing and able. So, I disagree with his point, as silly as it is. Morality and core values shold not be so malleable as to be be nothing more than an after thought. You ether believe in and live the ideals, or they are not your ideals.

    Everyone has a plan until the 1st 7.62 wizzes by. You appealed to your service, it wasn't relevant in this case....



    Is only one person responsible for that? Be honest now.

    Right now? there is only one, the guy who promised to close it....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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