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Thread: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    There is another thread on this forum which asks when the US fell from greatness. I said, of course, when the country began allowing itself to be run by corporations. I must add to the list:

    While I suppose this nation was never fully a moral one (with the whole slavery issue and what not), at least we kept up with the rest of the world's morality. We don't even do that anymore.

    There is no reason that we are not able to try these people and imprison them when they are found guilty. There is no reason we cannot stop torturing. There is no reason that we need extraordinary rendition.

    Obama has failed to end all of these things and I am greatly disappointed because of it. It sickens me that any of you can support torture, rendition, or jailing without trial.
    Heck, some of these goofballs could have been tried over the last two years if Obama hadn't banned military tribunals. Indignance aside, maybe you should think about why Obama is lifting the ban and also not closing Gitmo. Maybe the realities of national security in a dangerous world cannot be reconciled with high sounding liberal platitudes. Perhaps this is something even Obama has learned.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Heck, some of these goofballs could have been tried over the last two years if Obama hadn't banned military tribunals. Indignance aside, maybe you should think about why Obama is lifting the ban and also not closing Gitmo. Maybe the realities of national security in a dangerous world cannot be reconciled with high sounding liberal platitudes. Perhaps this is something even Obama has learned.
    Well if that's true then putting these people on trial should be no problem. You're telling me there is no legal recourse besides extraditing people to countries where we can hold them indefinitely? I wouldn't be surprised to hear we still torture as well.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  3. #253
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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    He doesnt have to close GITMO. He can just send them all covertly to their black ops prison at Bahgram that does the exact same thing that no one seems to give a **** about. There they can keep them til their happy little hearts content.

    It might help people to understand the process it took for someone to deserve to be sent to GITMO. We arent talking about Achmed tossing a hand grenade. We are talking about captured terrorists that went through several layers of screening to determine possible/potential intel value.

    Me...Im all for sending them to Karzai...let the Afghan government transport them across their country a few times in the back of a metal semi...problem solved.

  4. #254
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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Well if that's true then putting these people on trial should be no problem. You're telling me there is no legal recourse besides extraditing people to countries where we can hold them indefinitely? I wouldn't be surprised to hear we still torture as well.
    Do you know how our Defense Dept. came up with it's "torture" techniques? By looking at that types of things soldiers in training have to endure (well maybe with the exception of the pushing and the slapping).
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-08-11 at 12:35 AM.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  5. #255
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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Do you know how our Defense Dept. came up with it's "torture" techniques? By looking at that types of things soldiers in training have to endure (well maybe with the exception of the pushing and the slapping).
    Not completely true:

    The CIA interrogation strategies were based on work done by James Elmer Mitchell and Bruce Jessen in the Air Force's Survival Evasion Resistance Escape (SERE) program.[14][15][16][17][18][19] The CIA contracted with the two psychologists to develop alternative, harsh interrogation techniques.[14][15][16][17][18] However, neither of the two psychologists had any experience in conducting interrogations.[16][17][18][20] Air Force Reserve Colonel Steve Kleinman stated that the CIA "chose two clinical psychologists who had no intelligence background whatsoever, who had never conducted an interrogation... to do something that had never been proven in the real world."[17][18][20] Associates of Mitchell and Jessen were skeptical of their methods and believed they did not possess any data about the impact of SERE training on the human psyche.[18] The CIA came to learn that Mitchell and Jessen's expertise in waterboarding was probably "misrepresented" and thus, there was no reason to believe it was medically safe or effective.[16] Despite these shortcomings of experience and know-how, the two psychologists boasted of being paid $1000 a day plus expenses, tax-free by the CIA for their work.[16][17][18]

    The SERE program, which Mitchell and Jessen would reverse engineer, was originally designed to be defensive in nature and was used to train pilots and other soldiers on how to resist harsh interrogation techniques and torture were they to fall into enemy hands.[15][18]

    Enhanced interrogation techniques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, in essence, they borrowed from the techniques used by brutal regimes, lighted them a little, and rebranded them. But the core of the act remaines the same, torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not completely true:
    But true enough!!

    Review & Outlook: Obama Ratifies Bush - WSJ.com

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Did you mean to link something else as that is another subject?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    the only questions remaining are:

    will obama close gitmo before or after he prosecutes the cia, before or after he ends rendition and detention, before or after he moves ksm to manhattan, before or after we pullout of afghanistan, OBAMA'S WAR?

    the white house is no place for on the job training

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Who here honestly thought he was actually going to do this? Honestly
    When it comes to presidents and their promises, I tend not to believe what they say. They fall in that "full of crapola" group, where it's the samo, samo bullpucky.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Did anyone actually believe he was going to close it?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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