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Thread: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This does assume that everyone suspected is actually a terrorist. You know, no human error, guilty regardless of proof. And while I doubt your claim, it does beg the question as to whether you specifically care about right and wrong, good and evil, rule or law.
    When we are at war, and indeed we are at war with Islamist terrorists, we are better off to trust our military than not.

    We have done that in previous wars and while wrongs might have been done in WWI and WWII, as well as others, we did not worry so much about the guilt or innocence about the enemy. This concern is a very recent phenomenon, and one that will do the free world no good. The point in any war is to kill them before they kill you, and that rule should remain unchanged.

    The fact is I do care about right and wrong, which is why I am 100% against terrorism and Islamism.

    I trust the Canadian and American military, as well as the military of out allies, and believe they understand the difference between right and wrong. I do not trust politicians whose sense of right and wrong changes according to their political ambitions and public opinion polls..

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    When we are at war, and indeed we are at war with Islamist terrorists, we are better off to trust our military than not.

    We have done that in previous wars and while wrongs might have been done in WWI and WWII, as well as others, we did not worry so much about the guilt or innocence about the enemy. This concern is a very recent phenomenon, and one that will do the free world no good. The point in any war is to kill them before they kill you, and that rule should remain unchanged.

    The fact is I do care about right and wrong, which is why I am 100% against terrorism and Islamism.

    I trust the Canadian and American military, as well as the military of out allies, and believe they understand the difference between right and wrong. I do not trust politicians whose sense of right and wrong changes according to their political ambitions and public opinion polls..
    The military has never be above the law. Nor have they ever opporated outside civilian controls, and with good reason. And while I accept we have done many a wrong during almost all wars, I reject excusing them. And the concern is not recent. Many were concerned during all those wars. Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughter House Five for example was criticism of something that took place in WWII.

    And while you may not care about right and wrong, a good many people who have values, core values, that demand they do care about right and wrong. And it does not serve this country well to forget our values, to become more like what we denounce. It may be hard to try and do the right things in life, but very few things that hold value are easy.

    Also, terrorism is a tactic. Nothing more. Hard to go to war against a tactic. Islam is a religion, and many practice that religion without being a problem to anyone. It makes no sense to go to war against a religion. We don't need any holy wars. You'll quickly find God is on neither side.

    So, instead the human battle is always against radicals, agianst those who would do evil, who would harm innocent people. War, the kind where you bomb and invade and kill more innocent people will never really be as effective in this type of struggle as a smaller, more mobile, more specifc effort. In the end, we create more problems than we solve by being as reckless as we've been.

    As for the military, a noble and honorable profession that provides a needed service, they will take wantever mission we give them, even a reckless and foolish one. And as the hammer of our nation, like with most hammers, many things look like a nail to a hammer. So, when you ask the military, they will more often than not see and provide a military solution. This is to be expected. It is part of why we shouldn't leave all decisions up to them. When we need to do surgery, we might rightly prefer a scalpel to a hammer.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 01-20-11 at 12:02 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Surrender and there will be no war. Commit suicide and no one can hurt you.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Surrender and there will be no war. Commit suicide and no one can hurt you.
    Not sure how to take your comment. Iraq could surender and terrorism would go on. Afghanistan could surrender, and terrorism woudl go on. As could Pakistan. Iran. Palestine. No country could ever surrender and end terrorism. It is part of the folly of fighting a tactic, especially by invading a country.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    khalid sheikh muhammad is a TACTIC---LOL!

    obama ESCALATED his WAR vs the TACTICS in afghanistan

    even tho the methodologies whose human BLOOD he seeks to shed are, by all accounts, mostly in pakistan

    CIA: At most, 50-100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan - Political Punch

    and TEDDY KENNEDY, JOHN KERRY, HILLARY CLINTON and the other 47 dem senators lack core values

    because barack hussein isn't KING

    LOL!

    what an idiot

    obama, i mean

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    khalid sheikh muhammad is a TACTIC---LOL!
    No. KSM is a person. He committed crmes. He is much more specific than either terrorism or Islam.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    BBC News - Barack Obama orders 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan

    i know, boo, i know...

    you don't see the connection

    LOL!

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. KSM is a person. He committed crmes. He is much more specific than either terrorism or Islam.
    KSM was the mastermind behind 9/11. Even the most dedicated leftist anti-war people acknowledge the attack on the Pentagon was not a crime, but an act of war.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The military has never be above the law.
    You might have had a point had I ever claimed that the military is above the law, but I didn't.

    Nor have they ever opporated outside civilian controls, and with good reason. And while I accept we have done many a wrong during almost all wars, I reject excusing them. And the concern is not recent. Many were concerned during all those wars. Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughter House Five for example was criticism of something that took place in WWII.
    This is getting silly now. Slaughterhouse Five was a science fiction novel, which seems an appropriate enough place for you to have developed your position on war, the military and who are the good guys and the bad.
    And while you may not care about right and wrong, a good many people who have values, core values, that demand they do care about right and wrong. And it does not serve this country well to forget our values, to become more like what we denounce. It may be hard to try and do the right things in life, but very few things that hold value are easy.
    Each sentence you write seems to contain a whopper! I may not care about right and wrong?
    Also, terrorism is a tactic. Nothing more. Hard to go to war against a tactic. Islam is a religion, and many practice that religion without being a problem to anyone. It makes no sense to go to war against a religion. We don't need any holy wars. You'll quickly find God is on neither side.
    We are not, as many have taken pains to say repeatedly and clearly, at war with a religion. If we were it would be a lot easier. We are at war with islamism. With terrorists working under the banner of Islam. Now if you believe that all terrorists are Muslims or that all Muslims are terrorists, then you might have a point, but few believe that to be the case.

    So, instead the human battle is always against radicals, agianst those who would do evil, who would harm innocent people. War, the kind where you bomb and invade and kill more innocent people will never really be as effective in this type of struggle as a smaller, more mobile, more specifc effort. In the end, we create more problems than we solve by being as reckless as we've been.
    Attacking the United States on 9/11 was reckless, and consequences should not have been unexpected. But the behavior of religious fanatics has been notoriously unrelaiable, and they have been trained and encouraged to lie. I wouldn't give them the benefit of any doubts

    As for the military, a noble and honorable profession that provides a needed service, they will take wantever mission we give them, even a reckless and foolish one. And as the hammer of our nation, like with most hammers, many things look like a nail to a hammer. So, when you ask the military, they will more often than not see and provide a military solution. This is to be expected. It is part of why we shouldn't leave all decisions up to them. When we need to do surgery, we might rightly prefer a scalpel to a hammer.
    The religious fanatics who have created this War On Terror are being attacked on several levels, as has been made clear by the previous administration and carried on by the present. I continue to support the military and trust that the built in safe guards will continue to serve the public interest well. I also trust them to know who is on the battlefield prepared to do them harm and commit public harm as well. That is their decision to make at the time and not later in a New York Courtroom.

    They are killing a great deal more terrorists now, by the way, and that is how it should be. They attack the United States, and all the democracies, at their own peril.

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    Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You might have had a point had I ever claimed that the military is above the law, but I didn't.
    It speaks to my point. They don't opperate anyway they want. They are not only subject to civilian control, advancing civilian goals, but to rule of law. So, we cannot and should not simply say go, it's yours.


    This is getting silly now. Slaughterhouse Five was a science fiction novel, which seems an appropriate enough place for you to have developed your position on war, the military and who are the good guys and the bad.
    Not sure I've stated who was good guys and bad guys, but if you don't know that the novel speaks to Dresden, you don't understand the novel.


    Each sentence you write seems to contain a whopper! I may not care about right and wrong?
    Yes, may. No one who isn't a terrorist really supports terrorism. Islam, as I point out is a relgion, like any other. Being against a religion is kind of silly.

    We are not, as many have taken pains to say repeatedly and clearly, at war with a religion. If we were it would be a lot easier. We are at war with islamism. With terrorists working under the banner of Islam. Now if you believe that all terrorists are Muslims or that all Muslims are terrorists, then you might have a point, but few believe that to be the case.
    You make no real distinction here. There is no country of Islam. No borders. No flag. No ruler, or ruling body, or anyone who can surrender Islam. yes, some terrorist are Islaminc, but they are not Islam. It's a fundamental flaw in your thinking. Many of the KKK are christian, so are many skin heads. But neither are Christianity.

    Attacking the United States on 9/11 was reckless, and consequences should not have been unexpected. But the behavior of religious fanatics has been notoriously unrelaiable, and they have been trained and encouraged to lie. I wouldn't give them the benefit of any doubts
    Yes, itelligent consequences, directed at those specifically who were behind the act. Not just any country we thought we could use or abuse. And you should know that all kinds of groups of people exhibit unreliable behavior and lie.


    The religious fanatics who have created this War On Terror are being attacked on several levels, as has been made clear by the previous administration and carried on by the present. I continue to support the military and trust that the built in safe guards will continue to serve the public interest well. I also trust them to know who is on the battlefield prepared to do them harm and commit public harm as well. That is their decision to make at the time and not later in a New York Courtroom.

    They are killing a great deal more terrorists now, by the way, and that is how it should be. They attack the United States, and all the democracies, at their own peril.
    No, not near as much as you seem to believe. Our enemies actually benefitted greatly form the acts of the former administration. And how do you know who or what exactly they are talking. We know, as a fact, that some innocnet people were talken and abused, with at least two killed. As we've seen next to trials, no evidence, next to nothing on the vast majority, exactly how do you know, other than that blind trust you have?

    Leaders should never have that kind of trust from us. We should always be skeptical, especially when we've seen them clearly less than honest and open, and knowing that they've made more than a few mistakes.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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