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Thread: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

  1. #81
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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    O ok I get so you say you are familar, and thats supposed to be enough? Well I lived in Arizona and I'm telling you there are ways it can be improved, of course I'm using your standard and simply stating it as a fact without providing an backing. Now we have two "facts" that contradict each other, how is that possible? And really, you drive through the state on your way to California and that makes you an expert on AZ gun laws?
    you seem confused-federal gun laws are the same in every state



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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you seem confused-federal gun laws are the same in every state
    We are talking about Arizona state laws, specifically the ones which had a flaw, correctable or not, which allowed this man to purchase his weapon.

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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    federal gun control laws control this
    what you are claiming is that the federal laws are not strict enough



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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    WBone:
    I live in AZ. Guns laws are just fine. If you purchase from a dealer a background check is done. I do not feel that should ever be a requirement for a private seller selling his/her weapon. If someone really wants a weapon, they will find a way to aquire it (legally or illegally).
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    I would not challenge the effectiveness of gun regulation toward preventing incidents like this from happening. Mentally unstable people tend to be socially dysfunctional to the point that even going into a store and purchasing an item - any store, or any item - can be a challenge. Going through the channels and making the (often evasive and shady) contacts which enable them to obtain the required weapons illegally is a greater challenge for them than for psychologically typical citizens. It would be like somebody who has never used drugs and who doesn't know anybody in the culture trying to buy marijuana, but much more difficult and dangerous.

    The people who don't buy guns commercially are the people who use them rationally; that is, crimes of "rational self-interest," in which not being caught by the police is a major factor. Such people are not likely to target crowds or politicians, which at the very least would cause the FBI to hammer down on them with all of its administrative and investigative strength.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 01-10-11 at 12:30 AM.
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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    federal gun control laws control this
    what you are claiming is that the federal laws are not strict enough
    No in this case state law controls the type of sale this man completed, specifically the state laws which govern the sale of semi-automatic pistols. They differ state-by-state on many levels and what I was saying is that AngryAmerican does have anywhere near the knowledge required on the subject of Arizona gun laws to make a statement such as "There is no way we can improve their laws."

    I'm not talking about holes in the Federal law which might have allowed this guy to slip through, but I'm talking about Arizona law. And so is he for a matter of fact since the last thing he posted on the subject was about Arizona law not federal law.

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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    WBone:
    I live in AZ. Guns laws are just fine. If you purchase from a dealer a background check is done. I do not feel that should ever be a requirement for a private seller selling his/her weapon. If someone really wants a weapon, they will find a way to aquire it (legally or illegally).
    I agree but this man didn't use a private seller, I'm assuming you mean one individual selling to another not a private business. If thats what you meant sorry I'm just a little confused at what you're getting at. Anyway again all I'm trying to do is show how little AngryAmerican knows about Arizona gun law, and how his opinion is not fact which he seems to think it is

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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    O ok I get so you say you are familar, and thats supposed to be enough? Well I lived in Arizona and I'm telling you there are ways it can be improved, of course I'm using your standard and simply stating it as a fact without providing an backing. Now we have two "facts" that contradict each other, how is that possible? And really, you drive through the state on your way to California and that makes you an expert on AZ gun laws?
    Your last sentence demonstrates your misunderstanding of gun laws in general. As a CCW holder in my state, it is my responsibility to know other states laws if I wish to legally carry while traveling through any other state. Hence, I've had to thoroughly read AZ's firearm laws. It's not hard to understand, I promise. Frankly, however, I could care less if you believe me or not.

    Here's the problem, you're saying that gun laws need to be improved, but you have no constructive idea how to do so. That's like saying cancer treatments need to be improved but we have no idea how. I would be the first person to turn in my gun in a society that was guaranteed to be completely free of violence, but until then, our best option is self-defense, NOT crippling our ability to protect ourselves with more government tape.

    I'm quite flattered, though, at your desire to prove me wrong at all costs. Your devotion is quite touching.
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 01-10-11 at 12:25 AM.
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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    It's a shame that a few bad apples have to ruin things for the rest of us....
    " Those who plan to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it" - Thomas Paine
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. " -Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Your last sentence demonstrates your misunderstanding of gun laws in general. As a CCW holder in my state, it is my responsibility to know other states laws if I wish to legally carry while traveling through any other state. Hence, I've had to thoroughly read AZ's firearm laws. It's not hard to understand, I promise. Frankly, however, I could care less if you believe me or not.

    Here's the problem, you're saying that gun laws need to be improved, but you have no constructive idea how to do so. That's like saying cancer treatments need to be improved but we have no idea how. I would be the first person to turn in my gun in a society that was guaranteed to be completely free of violence, but until then, our best option is self-defense, NOT crippling our ability to protect ourselves with more government tape.

    I'm quite flattered, though, at your desire to prove me wrong at all costs. Your devotion is quite touching.
    I'm guessing you don't just talk people at their word for everything do you? But no apply a different standard for yourself, because you're special, ok bud.

    And no you're right I don't claim to have a solution, even though I clearly see a problem. Its just like how I can say a truck is broken when I don't exactly whats wrong with it or how to fix it. What really bugs me is that you are so keen to not accept reality when it doesn't fit into your politics. Going all the way back again you've said the only solution to the problem of gun crime is to have gun laws. However its clearly been shown through the world that there are other ways to reduce gun crime without have looser gun laws, but you can't acknowledge it as a solution. You're stuck on your opinion as being right.

    Going back to the example of China, they can pull off completely outlawing civilian ownership of weapons and still have a society nearly free of gun crimes. Why? Well part of the reason is the government keeps such tight control over its people, which is the reason I don't support that solution. However if we go by your words again "The only solution is less gun laws to reduce gun crime" than you're clearly wrong. A more intelligent argument would be there are other solutions however I don't think there are as good as mine because they limit the freedom of the people among other negative consequences.

    Thats whats really been bugging me this whole time, not your politics because on this issue they are very close to mine, but the way you go about looking at the world as if you're opinion is fact.

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