Page 4 of 25 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 243

Thread: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

  1. #31
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,073

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Not a flaw? You call someone purchasing gun, with the intent to use it to murder several people, not a flaw in the system?
    Unless gun dealers are psychic, then there is no way someone selling firearms is going to know the intent of the person buying a firearm.The only people who would walk into a firearm store saying they want to murder someone are anti-gun nuts trying to screw with people exercising their 2nd amendment rights by playing gatcha games. This talk of yours is just lame ass excuse to infringe on the rights of everybody else.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #32
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The problem is that neither of those two things are a legal designation of crazy, nor should they be. Real time in a psychiatric ward, a court order, or something of that nature should be the sort of thing that disqualifies a person from owning a gun. Being rejected for a job should never be.
    Agree totally and will add a criminal record as being something to consider for disqualification.

  3. #33
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Agree totally and will add a criminal record as being something to consider for disqualification.
    I think it depends on the nature of the crime and the recitivism rate. But essentially, yes.

  4. #34
    Can't stop the signal...
    theangryamerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    07-29-13 @ 11:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,233

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Not a flaw? You call someone purchasing gun, with the intent to use it to murder several people, not a flaw in the system?

    Yes under the current law he could purchase a weapon legally, however thats not an argument because I'm proposing looking at ways to make the law better to catch more better like this. What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with looking at how to change the system to ensure, AGAIN, less people with an intent to kill are able to purchase a weapon.

    What solution do you have? Does this situation and event even warrant a look at gun crimes and gun laws in the US or the state of Arizona? And again can you really defend your position that no solution to gun crime involves additional or changed gun laws?
    If you took even the slightest look at the facts instead of relying on biased opinions and hyperbole, you'd know that only a fraction of a percentage of guns are bought with criminal intent in mind. In the cases where a legally purchased gun is used by the rightful owner in the commission of a crime, the “time-to-crime” of a firearm ranges from one to 12 years. It is exceptionally rare that a newly purchased firearm is used in a crime. It is not the job of the gun shop owner or the government to predict the future.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  5. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Unless gun dealers are psychic, then there is no way someone selling firearms is going to know the intent of the person buying a firearm.The only people who would walk into a firearm store saying they want to murder someone are anti-gun nuts trying to screw with people exercising their 2nd amendment rights by playing gatcha games. This talk of yours is just lame ass excuse to infringe on the rights of everybody else.
    All I said was that there's a reason to re-examine the effectiveness of our current gun laws, I'm not saying its possible to always tell who has and does have the intent to kill. However if you look how we attempt to judge the risk of a gun purchaser its by looking at their past and their medical record, I was merely saying it may be a good idea if we are to analyze how to improve our gun laws, again only to help ensure someone with murderous intent cannot purchase a firearm, to see if we should add a record of being requested to seek metal health attention to the list of things which pop up during a background check.

    And again thats just an idea I'm not advocating it as a solution. My original post here was to simply point out the silliness of making a blanket statement that no solution to gun crimes involves additional gun laws.

    I'm not here to advocate policy, I'm just an analyst I'm paid and educated to look at every solution from as many possible angles as I can which is why I find it absurd to make a statement which writes off so many potential ideas for no other reason than personal ideology.

    I do not want to get into an argument about how to improve gun laws so less gun crime happens because it inevitably comes as result of this horrible event, and while I normally dislike advocating policy I especially hate it when its a personal tragedy we all kick around. I'm coming dangerously close to that, so I'm no longer to post about gun law because it frankly makes me uncomfortable doing so.
    Last edited by Wiseone; 01-09-11 at 10:16 PM.

  6. #36
    Can't stop the signal...
    theangryamerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    07-29-13 @ 11:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,233

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    All I said was that there's a reason to re-examine the effectiveness of our current gun laws, I'm not saying its possible to always tell who has and does have the intent to kill. However if you look how we attempt to judge the risk of a gun purchaser its by looking at their past and their medical record, I was merely saying it may be a good idea if we are to analyze how to improve our gun laws, again only to help ensure someone with murderous intent cannot purchase a firearm, to see if we should add a record of being requested to seek metal health attention to the list of things which pop up during a background check.

    And again thats just an idea I'm not advocating it as a solution. My original post here was to simply point out the silliness of making a blanket statement that no solution to gun crimes involves additional gun laws.

    I'm here to advocate policy, I'm just an analyst I'm paid and educated to look at every solution from as many possible angles as I can which is why I find it absurd to make a statement which writes off so many potential ideas for no other reason than personal ideology.

    I do not want to get into an argument about how to improve gun laws so less gun crime happens because it inevitably comes as result of this horrible event, and while I normally dislike advocating policy I especially hate it when its a personal tragedy we all kick around. I'm coming dangerously close to that, so I'm no longer to post about gun law because it frankly makes me uncomfortable doing so.
    ...because you're obviously far more misinformed than you want to let on.

    Gun crime is not something that can be legislated out of existence by any means. Bad guys will get guns, period. The solution is more guns in the hands of an educated populace. This is the only option proven to work.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  7. #37
    John Schnatter 2012 Phantom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    03-20-12 @ 12:48 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    638

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    I think the shooter hacked her YouTube profile before he set out to assassinate her.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2

    Look at her Subscriptions list in on the left side of the screen. All her Subscriptions are deleted except the shooter's YouTube profile and Congressman Ike Skelton's page.
    Vote John Schnatter (Papa John) 2012!

  8. #38
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,520

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    When something goes wrong, there's nothing wrong with asking why.
    What went wrong in this particular case, is Loughner was convicted of a drug charge while he was still a minor and the conviction din't show up on the FBI background check, when he bought the piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #39
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    ...because you're obviously far more misinformed than you want to let on.

    Gun crime is not something that can be legislated out of existence by any means. Bad guys will get guns, period. The solution is more guns in the hands of an educated populace. This is the only option proven to work.
    See this I can respond to because I'm not going to advocate anything other than a honest view of reality. You say its the only solution, but its not. What it is the only solution your political bias and personally ideology will allow you to see. If I was judging you as if you were an analyst, I'd say at best it simply means you've looked at all the options and have made an opinion, something no analyst is supposed to do, but still looked at every option. At worst you had an opinion and then looked at the options you liked. Of course you aren't an analyst and have every right to an opinion, however its my opinion that stating with an opinion then finding whatever suits your opinion is the wrong way to go about business. And thats what I'm going to argue.

    So back to the original point, its NOT the only solution is simply the one you like best. For example you have China which has found a different solution to the problem of gun crime, and if we only look at gun crime as a measuring stick its far more successful. Of course you and me consider personal freedom and the power of government much heavier than the Chinese do, but my point is that its a solution.

    Staring Down the Barrel: the Rise of Guns in China - WSJ.com


    And just as a side note, just how familiar are you with my state's gun laws? You seem extremely confident that there's no improvement that can be made, I'm just curious how much you felt you had understand about our gun laws in Arizona before you felt confident enough to make that statement. For example I wonder if you could tell me how old an individual has to be before buying a semi-automatic pistol in Phoenix, and what specifically goes into and what does not go into the check a gun store owner does before a purchase. If I was right in front of you I'd ask those questions, but since you have google at your command its an easy task to simply find the answer and pretend you knew it all along. So do this for me instead, ask yourself could you have answered those questions? And ask yourself just how much you know about our gun laws in Arizona, and then honestly think "Do I really know AZ gun law so inside and out that I can honestly say "There's no improvement to be made" and actually have that statement backed by my personal knowledge?"

    Its up to you to be honest with yourself.

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: Arizona Suspect's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions About Gun Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What went wrong in this particular case, is Loughner was convicted of a drug charge while he was still a minor and the conviction din't show up on the FBI background check, when he bought the piece.
    Then I think we can all agree that should be looked into to ensure the system results in less errors yes? And thanks for digging that up.

Page 4 of 25 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •