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Thread: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

  1. #191
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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    what other tax credit challenges.......?????

    do you have them to present?????

    Was that before or after the Citizens United decision expanded corporate rights?????
    Governments have used tax credits to incentivize certain individual and business behaviors (probably forever) and you are unaware of any court challenges? I find that odd for something so obviously illegal.

    Based on your postings, I can't believe that you are claming that only tax credits for businesses are illegal. You obviously believe that the SC ruling made business equal to individuals (which it didn't, but that's netiher here nor there). So, I assume that if you beleive tax credits to encourage behaviors of a business should be illegal, you believe the same for the individual tax payer.

    And still, after all these decades, not a single court challnege? Crazy!
    Last edited by buck; 03-28-11 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Governments have used tax credits to incentivize certain individual and business behaviors (probably forever) and you are unaware of any court challenges? I find that odd for something so obviously illegal.

    Based on your postings, I can't believe that you are claming that only tax credits for businesses are illegal. You obviously believe that the SC ruling made business equal to individuals (which it didn't, but that's netiher here nor there). So, I assume that if you beleive tax credits to encourage behaviors of a business should be illegal, you believe the same for the individual tax payer.

    And still, after all these decades, not a single court challnege? Crazy!
    You brought up the subject of past challenges.
    You show me the challenges.
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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    God forbid you actually have a business that some day you hope to incorporate....considering how evil they must be and all....


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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What I am talking about is within a state - within the same state - where a state entices a company to come there and extends to them a tax break that other companies and other corporations and other employers operating in that same state DO NOT GET. That is the state picking winners and losers and is now a questionable and illegal practice in view of the the implications of the Citizens United case in which corporations are persons and have the same rights under the 14th Amendment equal protections clause of the US Constitution.
    Corporations have enjoyed 14th amendment protections long before Citizens United. After all, this is one principal which allows a corporation to enter into a legal contract under the law. Furthermore, Citizens United wasn't a 14th case anyways. It was a First amendment issue.

    Highlighting the Citizens United case is moot to the topic at hand anyway. After all, Citizens United held that corporations do enjoy first amendment protection in political broadcasting. Your line of reasoning is whether or not States are able to pick winner's and losers not corporations. Clearly, a State does hold such authority otherwise a corporation would have a constitutional argument to protest unequal corporate tax rates and personal state/federal income tax rates under the 14th.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying is that States and communities should be able to establish their own tax rates. Such tax rates can be different, from state to states and community to community. If that is the case, then I misunderstood you in a prior post. Your complaint would be that states and communities should not be able to adjust their respective tax rates and regulatory over-site to enhance the prospects of luring business unless such rates and restrictions are offered to all within the same geographical boarder?

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You brought up the subject of past challenges.
    You show me the challenges.
    There weren't any challenges. That is the point.

    Tax credits have been used for to encourage individual behaviors for virtually forever. No one ever challegned it in the courts because it is not illegal for the government to use tax credits to encourage behaviors. In the same way, it is not illegal for governemnt to use tax credits to encourage business to act in a certain way.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    There weren't any challenges. That is the point.

    Tax credits have been used for to encourage individual behaviors for virtually forever. No one ever challegned it in the courts because it is not illegal for the government to use tax credits to encourage behaviors. In the same way, it is not illegal for governemnt to use tax credits to encourage business to act in a certain way.
    Exactly, as long as no other business was denied the same opportunity and the lack of law suits shows that to be the case. Any individual or corporation that engaged in the same practices were entitled to the same opportunities for tax benefits and that seems to be haymarket's problem. He always wants equal outcome vs. equal opportunity.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    from nevergolfpar

    Correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying is that States and communities should be able to establish their own tax rates. Such tax rates can be different, from state to states and community to community.
    yes.

    from Buck

    Tax credits have been used for to encourage individual behaviors for virtually forever. No one ever challegned it in the courts because it is not illegal for the government to use tax credits to encourage behaviors. In the same way, it is not illegal for governemnt to use tax credits to encourage business to act in a certain way.
    Tax credits are not individually selective picking only one individual over everyone else and to the exclusion of everyone else in that category. That is precisely what tax breaks given to new companies to relocate are doing.
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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from nevergolfpar

    yes.

    from Buck

    Tax credits are not individually selective picking only one individual over everyone else and to the exclusion of everyone else in that category. That is precisely what tax breaks given to new companies to relocate are doing.
    I'd like a link substantiating your opinion, Haymarket. In fact, show me that these tax breaks can be given without proper legislation in place. You are making the assumption that there are no guidelines for these tax breaks. Example: Alaska helps subsidize movie productions done within its borders. It's legislated. Not a perk to be handed out with indiscretion. Here's one called an Angel Investment Tax Credit enacted by the legislature in Illinois. Note the parameters of who is eligible. The State of Illinois Approves Angel Tax Credit - Hyde Park Angels

    For example, a state may have legislation on the books that allows tax credits if . . .

    More than 20,000 jobs are created (Or whatever the number)
    Headquartered in that state
    Might specify what industries are eligible to receive them (and spell out those who aren't)
    Involves a real estate purchase not less than 20 acres
    Whatever.....

    In fact, Texas, has its own website devoted to telling companies what incentives are available to businesses. TexasWideOpenForBusiness.com Texas Economic Development: Tax Incentives

    Fit the criteria they set? You're eligible. Don't fit it? You're not. Surely you aren't saying that every single business that opens its doors in the state of Texas ought to get tax incentives? Or that none should get them? Or, further, that every state has to offer the same ones?? That position is impossible to defend.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 03-28-11 at 03:30 PM.
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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    No state or locality should be able to entice a business to come to their state by offering them breaks or payments that other businesses already in the state cannot get.

    There is no website to support that opinion. Its my opinion.

    I base my opinion on the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and the Citizens United Decision and common sense having seen corporations travel like ladies of the night from customer to customer only staying long enough to get the money and then move on to the next one in line with even more.

    It is a tactic with no long term prospects of victory for anyone but the corporation. Some state, some locality will ALWAYS be there to offer a better deal. Its a race to the bottom.

    Do you want to win that race?
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-28-11 at 05:20 PM.
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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No state or locality should be able to entice a business to come to their state by offering them breaks or payments that other businesses already in the state cannot get.

    There is no website to support that opinion. Its my opinion.

    I base my opinion on the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and the Citizens United Decision and common sense having seen corporations travel like ladies of the night from customer to customer only staying long enough to get the money and then move on to the next one in line with even more.

    It is a tactic with no long term prospects of victory for anyone but the corporation. Some state, some locality will ALWAYS be there to offer a better deal. Its a race to the bottom.

    Do you want to win that race?
    Most states understand the benefits of bringing new business and taxpayers to their particular state and most businesses in those states probably already received many of the benefits offered by the state. There is no evidence that all businesses don't have the same opportunities for start up benefits in the states. Moving isn't cheap and no existing business has those start up expenses. You really don't seem to understand how business works. Why would an existing business want the start up costs that new businesses have that are being offered to entice businesses to their area?

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