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Thread: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Market cap has little to do with the topic being discussed.

    Gross Profit: 11.31B
    By the way, I want to thank Caterpillar for moving two divisions out of Illinois to TX and creating jobs here for thousands of Texans.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Market cap has little to do with the topic being discussed.

    Gross Profit: 11.31B
    The post I was responding to was this post by Maggie.

    Originally Posted by MaggieD
    I can't help but point out that that rate represents a tax bill of $1.9 billion. Not chump change...
    With this post by me.


    Cats market cap is $69.69B,about a weeks pay for them.

    Now explain to me why
    Market cap has little to do with the topic being discussed
    in the context of what i was responding to.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    The post I was responding to was this post by Maggie.



    With this post by me.





    Now explain to me why in the context of what i was responding to.
    Because market cap has nothing to do with income tax, the tax rate a company paid or the "the weeks pay" a company took in. Market cap, at least my understanding, is just the value of the company based on the outstanding shares.

    and I just looked it up to verify:

    On-going market valuation of a public firm (whose shares are publicly traded) computed by multiplying the number of outstanding shares (held by the shareholders) with the current per share market price. It is, however, not necessarily the price a buyer would pay for the entire firm. And is not a realistic estimate of the firm's actual size, because a share's market price is based on trading in only a fraction of the firm's total outstanding shares.
    You stated that "Cats market cap is $69.69B,about a weeks pay for them." referring, I assume, to the $1.9 billion in income tax Cat allegedly paid.


    Maybe you can tell me what market cap has to do with the alleged 1.9bil state tax bill being equivalent of 1 weeks pay? It's possible I just completely misundertood your point.. Shrug?
    Last edited by buck; 03-26-11 at 05:38 PM.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Because market cap has nothing to do with income tax, the tax rate a company paid or the "the weeks pay" a company took in. Market cap, at least my understanding, is just the value of the company based on the outstanding shares.

    and I just looked it up to verify:



    You stated that "Cats market cap is $69.69B,about a weeks pay for them." referring, I assume, to the $1.9 billion in income tax Cat allegedly paid.


    Maybe you can tell me what market cap has to do with the alleged 1.9bil state tax bill being equivalent of 1 weeks pay? It's possible I just completely misundertood your point.. Shrug?
    No,you understood what i said; what i should have said, instead of market cap was gross income which in 2010 was 11.53 B. Which means that about five weeks sales their tax is paid for the year.

    Seeing as they are now viewed in the eyes of the law as people...pretty good tax rate if you ask me.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    No,you understood what i said; what i should have said, instead of market cap was gross income which in 2010 was 11.53 B. Which means that about five weeks sales their tax is paid for the year.

    Seeing as they are now viewed in the eyes of the law as people...pretty good tax rate if you ask me.
    Thank you for clarifying. I really thought I was compeltely lost on your point.

    I personally don't know the specifics of their tax return. So, I really can't say wether it was a good rate or not. Taking it from the very simplistic way your are illustrating it, it sure seems good.
    Last edited by buck; 03-26-11 at 06:42 PM.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Seeing as they are now viewed in the eyes of the law as people...pretty good tax rate if you ask me.
    Just to expand a little - corporations (just like people) have deductions that can be claimed. I have little doubt Catepillar (just like me and most likely you) made use of them in order to reduce their overal income tax.

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Just to expand a little - corporations (just like people) have deductions that can be claimed. I have little doubt Catepillar (just like me and most likely you) made use of them in order to reduce their overal income tax.

    They would most likely be derelict in their duties to the companies/stockholders you and me if they didnít. That being said, look at the CORP PEOPLES TAX RATE.


    CAT: CATERPILLAR INC DEL Income Statement
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    we can do better elsewhere, seeya

    whatcha gonna do, build a wall?

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    let's ask jeffrey immelt about market cap

    after all, he's obama's competitiveness czar

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    Re: Illinois Lawmakers Propose 75% Income Tax Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    No,you understood what i said; what i should have said, instead of market cap was gross income which in 2010 was 11.53 B. Which means that about five weeks sales their tax is paid for the year.

    Seeing as they are now viewed in the eyes of the law as people...pretty good tax rate if you ask me.
    Cat's pretax income was 3.74B for FY2010, of which they paid 968M in total world wide taxes. This puts Cat squarely in the 25.88% tax bracket. Keep in mind that the United States has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world (now the highest as Japan just lowed their CTR by 5% FOR 2011) for FY2010. Since a majority of the taxes Cat paid were in fact overseas, it's effective United States tax rate is in fact much higher than the 25.88% rate I quoted. This because the lower rates Cat enjoys elsewhere in the world are negatively impacted by the higher rates in the United States. In other words Cat is more than likely paying the 35% rate that it is suppose to.

    I don't know where you get the 11 days, but the reality is, it takes Cat 128 days to pay its United States tax liability. Remember since Cat is dealing with large amounts of money a 1 or 2% in tax savings is often all that is needed to justify moving 2 new divisions to Texas. Couple the tax savings with less state wide regulation being imposed on it, coupled again with tax abatements and business friendly work laws, it is no wonder Cat moved.

    A word of advice to those who disagree with the last paragraph; don't open a business because if you do, I assure you, you will fail.

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