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Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

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repeter said:
Hay...Loughner isn't right wing or left wing. Looking at what he says, he believes a lot of far right and far left things...as Turtle said earlier, he's a bipartisan asshole. And there isn't any one group/person to blame. The rhetoric has been getting worse for a long time...
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I don't think the rhetoric is any worse now than it has been over the past 230 years. In 1804, Alexander Hamilton (former SECTRES) and Aaron Burr (the sitting VP), fought a dual and Hamilton was killed. Why? Because Hamilton had made the claim that Burr was, "A dangerous man, and one who ought not be trusted with the reins in government".

We've had 4 presidents assissinated--Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy. We've had two presidents wounded in assissination attempts--Teddy Roosevelt and Reagan. There have been actual attempts--Jackson, Lincoln (1861), Franklin Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy (1960), Nixon, Ford (twice), Bush Sr. and Clinton (three times).

I think there have been 6 assissinations/assissination attempts upon congressmen.

So, this hardly some kind of recent phenomenon. It would be the pinnacle of ignorance to blame this on anyone's political rhetoric. Anyone who believes that political rhetoric is the singular reason for these kinds of acts, should spend less time talking and more time soul searching.
 
I was watching the press conference at the Med Center, and they're saying she hasn't talked yet, but is responsive. They're going to try to fight the swelling by taking part of her skull off, so she'll be in the hospital for a while.

Also, about the murderer, his 2 favorite books are Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto (according to his Myspace page). At this point, police suspect an accomplice who was caught on security camera. Loughner might also be tied to the hate group American Renaissance, though they've denied he was ever a member.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-youtube-videos-_n_806370.html
 
I would like to remind everybody that although it is easy to focus on the child, 5 other adults were killed who had equal right to life as she did. We forget about their families. They matter too. Let's take a moment to remember ALL the deceased in this tragedy. If you think about it, everyone there was there because they wanted to talk to this lady, they loved this country enough to care and be there on the corner discussing the issues.

Those were some AWESOME AMERICANS if you ask me.
 
apdst said:
So, this hardly some kind of recent phenomenon. It would be the pinnacle of ignorance to blame this on anyone's political rhetoric. Anyone who believes that political rhetoric is the singular reason for these kinds of acts, should spend less time talking and more time soul searching.
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While I agree that rhetoric has hardly gotten worse, the problem todya is that it reaches more people then it used to, and there's a higher chance someone who listens to it is enraged, or is already a powder keg waiting to blow.
 
X Factor said:
I lived in AZ for some time. An awesome state.
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Yes my friend.. it's an awesome state and it's people are great and good people, it only takes a bad seed to make decent human beings look demonic and also bring a bad name if politically inclined.
This guy is nothing but a nut case as you know.
 
repeter said:
While I agree that rhetoric has hardly gotten worse, the problem todya is that it reaches more people then it used to, and there's a higher chance someone who listens to it is enraged, or is already a powder keg waiting to blow.
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There's more people now, than there was 150-200 years ago, too. A bigger chance of a nujob coming out of the woodwork. There thousands of variables that can be factored into this equation. To say the that Sarah Palin's use of a cross-hair on a website to, "target", political opposition, or Obama calling Republicans, "the enemy", does more to illustrate a person's stupidity than anything else.
 
Unless there is evidence linking Sarah Palins website to this nut job, her website has nothing to do with it.

I could put a crosshair and a website on anybody in the country and if that person is killed and the killer didn't even know I made the site, the site isn't to blame.
 
Red Crow said:
Yes my friend.. it's an awesome state and it's people are great and good people, it only takes a bad seed to make decent human beings look demonic and also bring a bad name if politically inclined.
This guy is nothing but a nut case as you know.
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Anybody who would blame the state for what happened wouldn't be someone worth listening to.
 
Crosscheck said:
It is a normal human response to some act that they don't have enough facts on. You pass a motor vehicle accident and you try to speculate what caused it.
Yesterday there was initially such wild speculation whether Giffords was alive or dead by the media who had people on the scene.

With the Okalhoma City Bombing years ago speculation was way off the target by first accusing it to be from Muslims but in light of the climate then it was felt to make sense perhaps.

Am certain the police investigation is doing there speculation too and acting on it to see if it is founded or not. People here desire to know the truth too so in attempt to make sense of this.

Already many have labeled him insane but I am not so certain and believe this was a well planned out killing by someone of normal intelligence but then I am just speculating.
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My first thought was that this was a hit by the Mexican Cartels do to her stance on border security. If there were any accomplishes I wonder what their motives really are.
 
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apdst said:
I don't think the rhetoric is any worse now than it has been over the past 230 years. In 1804, Alexander Hamilton (former SECTRES) and Aaron Burr (the sitting VP), fought a dual and Hamilton was killed. Why? Because Hamilton had made the claim that Burr was, "A dangerous man, and one who ought not be trusted with the reins in government".

We've had 4 presidents assissinated--Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy. We've had two presidents wounded in assissination attempts--Teddy Roosevelt and Reagan. There have been actual attempts--Jackson, Lincoln (1861), Franklin Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy (1960), Nixon, Ford (twice), Bush Sr. and Clinton (three times).

I think there have been 6 assissinations/assissination attempts upon congressmen.

So, this hardly some kind of recent phenomenon. It would be the pinnacle of ignorance to blame this on anyone's political rhetoric. Anyone who believes that political rhetoric is the singular reason for these kinds of acts, should spend less time talking and more time soul searching.
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Really? So you feel the internet, and instant access to all the "good, bad and ugly" bears no part in in how information is spread and disseminated?
 
BDBoop said:
Really? So you feel the internet, and instant access to all the "good, bad and ugly" bears no part in in how information is spread and disseminated?
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It doesn't matter. It's what someone does with that information that makes the difference.

If a kook decides he's going to kill innocent people, do we really care what sources he used to justify his actions?
 
dontworrybehappy said:
It doesn't matter. It's what someone does with that information that makes the difference.

If a kook decides he's going to kill innocent people, do we really care what sources he used to justify his actions?
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I largely agree with you. But much like yelling fire in a crowded theater, what is said can have an effect. I don't support censorship, but I also think much of our rhetoric deserves serious criticism and would love more responsible behavior from our political entertainers.
 
Navy Pride said:
I have heard 12 people have been shot and 5 are dead including a child..........It sounds like a terrorist attack.............

Now I have just heard that the Congresswoman is still alive at the hospital in critical condition...............
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You are correct Navy....it was just another right-wing terrorist
 
disneydude said:
You are correct Navy....it was just another right-wing terrorist
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how many 'right wingers' favorite book is the communist manifesto?

that's not to say this guy was crazy because of liberals or socialists. he was just crazy. judging from his videos he hasn't had a rational thought in a long time. if any ideology is to blame, it's the ideology of 'the other guy is so bad you have to vote for me no matter what i say'. supporting the left or the right because of the evils of the other side is insane. both sides are right because both sides are insane. bigger government robs from the people, bigger corporations rob from the people. when those are the only two sides, eventually the people have nothing. when the people have nothing, they can't lose anymore and they get crazy.
 
Zyroh said:
how many 'right wingers' favorite book is the communist manifesto?
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I know at least one. Sadly. He's also a fan of Hitler. Hates liberals. A skin head here.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Disneydude is now thread banned.
 
Boo Radley said:
I largely agree with you. But much like yelling fire in a crowded theater, what is said can have an effect. I don't support censorship, but I also think much of our rhetoric deserves serious criticism and would love more responsible behavior from our political entertainers.
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Yes, but I detect a hint of "passing the buck" of responsibility away from the person pulling the trigger.

I don't care what they saw, heard or read, if they shoot up a function like this, or any body anywhere, they are murderers. Nobody told them to murder. Quit trying to pass the buck.

This is Jared's actions and Jareds only.
 
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