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Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

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Phantom said:
Here is a witness statement from a civilian gun owner who helped detain the criminal at the scene

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The first guy and woman saved maybe another dozen people. Would love to see an interview with them.
 
Crosscheck said:
Nice of you to post your concerns over the victims
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My heart goes out to all of the victims of this tragedy. I post on another board (a none political one) where I have expressed my thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families. I just started reading this thread and noticed the reports of MSNBC and others ALREADY trying to make political hay out of this, before we know much about this guy.

I know this isn't the thread to discuss this in, so I will lay off the topic.
 
Taylor said:
Or video games. An important lesson to be learned is that we need to do away with violent rhetoric AND video games because there's a possibility that they impact psychopaths.
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What? Who?

Video Games? Really?
 
MrVicchio said:
What? Who?

Video Games? Really?
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The video games crap some people put out is absolutely laughable. The ends don't justify the means. Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

Restricting responsible adults from experiencing media so that a few deranged individuals won't see it is pointless. If you're so screwed up that you can't understand a video game then you're going to crack eventually anyway.

If you walk into an Opera house and see that most of the audience consists of rich elite would a reasonable conclusion be that Opera makes people rich? No, of course not. Wealthy people have both the means, and often the desire (due to better education, etc), to watch Opera. Similarly, deranged idiots have both the means and the desire to play video games and watch violent movies because they enjoy embracing their fantasies. ie: it's not that video games produce deranged idiots, it's that deranged idiots are attracted to video games.

In any case, the requirement for restricting free expression is the incitement of "imminent lawless action". Video games I have seen do not meet this requirement. Well you could always establish a totalitarian regime or something, but I assume that's not what you want.

I initially thought the gunman might have just been a very disturbed person randomly shooting people, then I considered he might be a deranged conservative, then I considered he might be a deranged Democrat, fed up with what he perceives as the Democratic Party being a second wing of the one elite party.

Who knows? Any information on him?
 
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I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but I think this thread pointed out those who were able to keep calm. I noticed a few banned members from this thread. I had a lot of points, half of which expired so I have some breathing room now, but I noticed that some people, who don't have issues in the normal forum, got temp suspended from this thread. Yet people like me, and a few others, who are hot in the regular forum area kept cool and non-political about this tragedy.

I think it says a lot about our members. There are still those who are trying to politicize this. Saying "We need to find out what made him tick." Well, maybe we do, but his political beliefs are irrelevant. It's not a political belief that makes someone do this. I wouldn't care if he yelled out, "I'm a tea partier!" before he shot up the place. That's still crock and people know that. People can hate another party, person, whatever, and not put a bullet through their skull.

I think we need to accept this as a one-time tragedy, and move on. This guy was a raving lunatic, his youtube channel proved it. Try him according to the laws of our nation, and if he is found guilty, sentence him appropriately. And that's where this should end.
 
Shocking and so sad. My heart goes out to the families of all who perished. My God, a 9 year old child won't be going to school on Monday :(

I've worked in a military trauma station and an emergency room. Kudos to the surgeon's, doctors, and nurses who undoubtedly saved the lives of many critically injured victims.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but I think this thread pointed out those who were able to keep calm. I noticed a few banned members from this thread. I had a lot of points, half of which expired so I have some breathing room now, but I noticed that some people, who don't have issues in the normal forum, got temp suspended from this thread. Yet people like me, and a few others, who are hot in the regular forum area kept cool and non-political about this tragedy.

I think it says a lot about our members. There are still those who are trying to politicize this. Saying "We need to find out what made him tick." Well, maybe we do, but his political beliefs are irrelevant. It's not a political belief that makes someone do this. I wouldn't care if he yelled out, "I'm a tea partier!" before he shot up the place. That's still crock and people know that. People can hate another party, person, whatever, and not put a bullet through their skull.

I think we need to accept this as a one-time tragedy, and move on. This guy was a raving lunatic, his youtube channel proved it. Try him according to the laws of our nation, and if he is found guilty, sentence him appropriately. And that's where this should end.
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Good post. And I agree. This issue has separated those who can be reasonable from those who are not.
 
RightinNYC said:
She went to high school and college with him and also played in a band with him. Not "high school band."



You want to know what made him tick? Conscience dreaming and grammar. Good luck making political hay out of that.
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I am sure there is a market for it. ;)

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this is just terrible.

much admiration to the two bystanders who tackled the shooter and prevented further deaths/injuries.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Another reminder to stay on topic and keep it focused.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Good post. And I agree. This issue has separated those who can be reasonable from those who are not.
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Those looking for a REASON for the shooting are not acting unreasonably, nor is it unreasonable to reject the militant language that has seeped into the political landscape and has intensified in recent years.

I would offer that it is the lack of concern over the reason for the shooting that better reflects the attitudes associated with an unreasonable person and that not caring about the intensification of militant rhetoric does not indicate reason, but simply the avoidance of making a value judgement.

Seems to me a reasonable person would say "enough is enough" in regards to the militant rhetoric rather than chastising those who reject it.
 
Zyphlin said:
Pretty much sums it up.
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No.

It's not a stretch to come to the opinion that this person is deranged. However, from what I understand, the police are looking for at least another suspect/accomplice. So a deranged guy shooting a congress woman is possibly not the whole story, and it's very plausible that there is more than meets the eye.
 
I would concur with Gardener, and with the Sheriff at the scene, who spoke through his personal loss and anger to point to the ugly truth.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government,' Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told a news conference.
'The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous.
'And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.'
He added: 'That may be free speech. But it's not without consequence...."

Read more: Sarah Palin under fire as sheriff Clarence Dupnik blames political 'vitriol' for Arizona shooting | Mail Online
 
Manc Skipper said:
I would concur with Gardener, and with the Sheriff at the scene, who spoke through his personal loss and anger to point to the ugly truth.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government,' Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told a news conference.
'The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous.
'And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.'
He added: 'That may be free speech. But it's not without consequence...."

Read more: Sarah Palin under fire as sheriff Clarence Dupnik blames political 'vitriol' for Arizona shooting | Mail Online
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I would add that when political figures and civil rights leaders were assasinated in the sixties, I don't recall all these admonishments and finger wagging in the faces of those who understood that because these were assassinations, then the motivations for such needed to be questioned. I recall few people positing that you were a "political hack" if you realized the relationship between intensified rhetoric and the deeds that followed.

When political figures are shot, these are political actions by very definition. Trying to lift these actions completely out of context by claiming that they are just the random acts of a mad man is an attempt to explain them away rather than explain them.
 
I have read the comments made on this site since that tragic occurrence. I have read the news paper articles. Sadness for the incident aside, one feeling comes to mind. Disgust. Two words come to mind. Good Lord.

Who said never let a tragedy go to waste? Without shame, the number of people that have turned this into a political attack...reprehensible. Expected...but reprehensible nontheless. You know nothing about the sick twisted **** that did this...but with the typical display of cowardice and classlessness, you prove yourselves immediately worse than him. Disgusting.
 
Manc Skipper said:
I would concur with Gardener, and with the Sheriff at the scene, who spoke through his personal loss and anger to point to the ugly truth.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government,' Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told a news conference.
'The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous.
'And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.'
He added: 'That may be free speech. But it's not without consequence...."

Read more: Sarah Palin under fire as sheriff Clarence Dupnik blames political 'vitriol' for Arizona shooting | Mail Online
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To blame society for the random act of a lunatic is wrong. Nut jobs are nut jobs. Period.

Further, for this link to target Sarah Palin in particular shows what an ignorant society we've become. Enough already!
 
VanceMack said:
I have read the comments made on this site since that tragic occurrence. I have read the news paper articles. Sadness for the incident aside, one feeling comes to mind. Disgust. Two words come to mind. Good Lord.

Who said never let a tragedy go to waste? Without shame, the number of people that have turned this into a political attack...reprehensible. Expected...but reprehensible nontheless. You know nothing about the sick twisted **** that did this...but with the typical display of cowardice and classlessness, you prove yourselves immediately worse than him. Disgusting.
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Meh what ever at least we are not out shooting innocent people
 
Gardener said:
When political figures are shot, these are political actions by very definition. Trying to lift these actions completely out of context by claiming that they are just the random acts of a mad man is an attempt to explain them away rather than explain them.
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Could not disagree with you more. The random act of a mad man is exactly what just happened. To politicize this tragedy is ridiculous.
 
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winston53660 said:
Meh what ever at least we are not out shooting innocent people
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Arent 'you'? Every indication is that this guy has a liberal background. So did the ****stain in Florida recently. And do you REALLY want to pretend the left hasnt been spreading hate-filled rhetoric since the election of Bush? How many leftists on this site post regularly their hatred for conservative talk show hosts and politicians. Oh no...you are SQUEKY clean...arent you.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Manc Skipper and VanceMack are thread banned. Any and each additional post here will result in a 5 point DBAJ infraction.
 
MaggieD said:
Could not disagree with you more. The random act of a mad man is exactly what just happened. To politicize this tragedy is ridiculous.
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Yeah, there must be nothing political about political assassinations. :roll:
 
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