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Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

The Giant Noodle said:
I presented fact and you go on and just post YOUR opinion. I WOULD say "typical conservative" but there ARE conservatives on this forum that DO provide solid responses and not just "Hannity answers". PLUS... this is about Republicans repealing Obamas health care bill. Not going off and babbling about something else!
Ive said it before... I dont like this bill. It doesnt FIX the HUUUUUUUGE cost of health care! Alas YOU and the conserva-people dont have ANYTHING to tackle the REAL problem. There are to many Republicans in bed with lobbyists (especially Boehner).

This whole thing is a JOKE! PLUUUUS the majority of America DOES want Obamacare! (unless you take the conservative sites). This whole thing makes ME sick. I need a doctor! :vomit:
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Obviously you don't have a clue. Do some research on the MA healthcare program which is the model for Obamacare. ER usage is skyrocketing because there aren't enough doctors to handle the demand.

In case you haven't noticed, you aren't getting a lot of support on your claims as most people have research MA and know whatis going on there. None of that information came from Hannity. Is that all you have?
 
Jetboogieman said:
He doesn't realise I actually live in Canada.

He often refers to my home country, as if to imply I'm some sort of moron because I'm African.
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Then you have my apology, I thought you lived in South Africa. As for implying that you are a moron, not sure where you get that as you are totally capable of identifying yourself all by yourself.
 
Conservative said:
Then you have my apology, I thought you lived in South Africa. As for implying that you are a moron, not sure where you get that as you are totally capable of identifying yourself all by yourself.
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touche............
 
Henrin said:
I explained why I said by new power. Lets start off either zero powers, ok, now you add one, then another, then another. This is what the framers did, understand now that every line didn't give power. Maybe I didn't use the right term there, but you should get the point.

The clause you are talking about, again, doesn't give any power to the federal government. I'm not talking about here in this individual case, I'm talking in general. It doesn't give them power to do anything that wasn't already given.
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I think you should read that section of the Constitution again, specifically where the title reads, "Powers of Congress", but more clarative, "The Congress shall have Power To..."

Do what? Where the health care reform law is concerned...

1. levy taxes.

2. regulate commerce...between the several states.

3. make laws that are necessary and proper in carrying out the foregoing powers.

Therefore, if your point is that the last clause of Art 1, Section 8 is clarative, that all it does is reaffirm all the powers granted to Congress in the preceeding clauses, then to that I would agree to an extend. Still, the mere fact that the Constitution does grant Congress the power to make laws that, in its view, address the overwriting concerns for the nation and can levy taxes to address those concerns where interstate commerce is concerned gives them justification enough. The only question that remains is did Congress overstep its bounds where health care reform, more specifically, the individual mandate, is concerned? Again, I'll leave that to the Supreme Court to decide.
 
Objective Voice said:
I think you should read that section of the Constitution again, specifically where the title reads, "Powers of Congress", but more clarative, "The Congress shall have Power To..."

Do what? Where the health care reform law is concerned...

1. levy taxes.

2. regulate commerce...between the several states.

3. make laws that are necessary and proper in carrying out the foregoing powers.

Therefore, if your point is that the last clause of Art 1, Section 8 is clarative, that all it does is reaffirm all the powers granted to Congress in the preceeding clauses, then to that I would agree to an extend. Still, the mere fact that the Constitution does grant Congress the power to make laws that, in its view, address the overwriting concerns for the nation and can levy taxes to address those concerns where interstate commerce is concerned gives them justification enough. The only question that remains is did Congress overstep its bounds where health care reform, more specifically, the individual mandate, is concerned? Again, I'll leave that to the Supreme Court to decide.
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Without the individual mandate the program is dead. It is unsustainable unless everyone is forced to participate and I believe that is unconstitutional.
 
Conservative said:
Without the individual mandate the program is dead. It is unsustainable unless everyone is forced to participate and I believe that is unconstitutional.
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Surprisingly my friend. Although we butt heads.

I personally believe the mandate is absolute bull**** as well. I wouldn't accept that.

Even here in Canada we may have to use Government health care, but we're not forced to get it if we don't want.
 
Henrin said:
Individual responsibly doesn't mean they have to be responsible or they will be forced. Freedom isn't a golden bridge, its a bridge covered in spikes and must be protected. That doesn't mean you shouldn't hold individual responsibly high, you can do so easily while teaching people how to act responsibility. Whatever you do saying responsibility is more important than freedom is absurdity.
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Didn't say that at all. However, with freedom comes responsibility...the "freedom" to conduct our lives in a responsible manner. How you exercise that freedom is a choice. Where the mandate is concerned, it's basically saying, "if you don't act responsibly and acquire health insurance if you can afford it, you will be penalized until you take responsible action because your inaction is having a negative impact on the greater society, the economy and quite possibly yourself."

Again, I'm more than willing to let the Supreme Court tackle this one because it is within Congress' power to make laws based on the overriding need of the country. Nonetheless, as I've said before if Republicans honestly believe that the law is wrong or flawed the best thing they could do is work w/Dems to fix what they consider to be broken with the law.

With that, I'm out.
 
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Bottom line is Republicans are going to cost this Country billions on something that MIGHT work. Im not a fan of the bill but this MIGHT work and actually SAVE money in the long run. Also I DONT think this is something that Americans want to repeal. Either way the whole way about reducing health care costs is WRONG! The Canadian system WORKS! (dont you DARE say it doesnt because I shall bombard you at every point)

Americas health care kills over 800% more people than DUIs. It rates LESS than the lower 30 countries. It is also the most EXPENSIVE health care in the world.
Any I wrong with my facts folks?!??! Please prove me wrong :(
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Bottom line is Republicans are going to cost this Country billions on something that MIGHT work. Im not a fan of the bill but this MIGHT work and actually SAVE money in the long run. Also I DONT think this is something that Americans want to repeal. Either way the whole way about reducing health care costs is WRONG! The Canadian system WORKS! (dont you DARE say it doesnt because I shall bombard you at every point)

Americas health care kills over 800% more people than DUIs. It rates LESS than the lower 30 countries. It is also the most EXPENSIVE health care in the world.
Any I wrong with my facts folks?!??! Please prove me wrong :(
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You sure put a lot of faith in the U.S. Federal Govt. Where does that faith come from? Name for me one Federally run program that cost what it was supposed to cost? Check out Medicare for example and then SS. You are betting that for some reason this program is different. I will be happy to answer your questions and give you data when you answer mine. We do have a Constitution and freedoms. There is no evidence that America's healthcare kills over 800% more than DUI's. Prove it. Every year life expectancy is increasing and what you want to do is force people to buy something that many don't want to buy and that is unconstitutional IMO. The Supreme Court will decide.

Can you explain to me why Europe is reversing its healthcare program and making it more market base but the U.S. is going to opposite direction?
 
The Giant Noodle said:
There are to many Republicans in bed with lobbyists (especially Boehner).
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obama and dodd were the top recipients of aig cash

Critics Got Donations From Insurer - WSJ.com

some pretty ugly things went down subsequent

Geithner's New York Fed Pushed AIG To Keep Sweetheart Deals Secret (READ THE AIG EMAILS)

and then dodd and geithner grandfathered those gross aig bonuses

Obama Administration: We Didn't Find Out About AIG Bonuses Until This Month - Political Punch

stay up, i appreciate and applaud your self respect
 
Conservative said:
Without the individual mandate the program is dead
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finally

that's EXACTLY it

without the mandate the "young invulnerables," upon whom all depend to balance all us oldsters, will flee

without the mandate, the entire financial underpinning of obamacare gets violently kicked out

and with ms mccaskill upstairs indicating movement...

it's a done deal downstairs, anytime we want

way to see moves ahead, friend, keep up the good work
 
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The Giant Noodle said:
Bottom line is Republicans are going to cost this Country billions on something that MIGHT work. Im not a fan of the bill but this MIGHT work and actually SAVE money in the long run.
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ouch

MIGHT aint good enough

you can't radically redraw one sixth of the us economy on a MAYBE

when you're president, when you're leadership, you gotta know

not a good point, in my opinion

Also I DONT think this is something that Americans want to repeal.
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the results of the last election indicate serious reservation concerning obamacare, republicans were sent to washington in record numbers for a reason

one of the most important and underlooked FRONTS of the coming REPEAL WARS, which will go on probably for years, is HEARINGS

fred the slasher upton at energy and commerce (this is henry waxman's committee, perhaps you recall arkansas' mike ross leading a bluedog rebellion vs waxman/obama in the summer of 09 which went on for weeks) will have lots to look into, reveal and expose about this bill (the ten years of taxes vs 6 years of coverage, the cbo's claim that a quarter trillion is double counted, ryan's rub, and many other things)

issa on oversight, ron paul on financial services, spencer bacchus, paul ryan on budget...

to repeal or not to repeal will go far to define the 2012 landscape, and as ms pelosi herself said there is much in this bill that americans won't know about until after its passage

links available, mostly politico

ie, the pros are looking this many moves ahead

stay up

dignity
 
 
The Prof said:
ouch

MIGHT aint good enough

you can't radically redraw one sixth of the us economy on a MAYBE

when you're president, when you're leadership, you gotta know

not a good point, in my opinion



the results of the last election indicate serious reservation concerning obamacare, republicans were sent to washington in record numbers for a reason

one of the most important and underlooked FRONTS of the coming REPEAL WARS, which will go on probably for years, is HEARINGS

fred the slasher upton at energy and commerce (this is henry waxman's committee, perhaps you recall arkansas' mike ross leading a bluedog rebellion vs waxman/obama in the summer of 09 which went on for weeks) will have lots to look into, reveal and expose about this bill (the ten years of taxes vs 6 years of coverage, the cbo's claim that a quarter trillion is double counted, ryan's rub, and many other things)

issa on oversight, ron paul on financial services, spencer bacchus, paul ryan on budget...

to repeal or not to repeal will go far to define the 2012 landscape, and as ms pelosi herself said there is much in this bill that americans won't know about until after its passage

links available, mostly politico

ie, the pros are looking this many moves ahead

stay up

dignity
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OK.... I would subscribe to what you say. But where is what YOU say fact? Are you another Hannity babble thing? Or do you have something to back that up?

See folks... opinion is nice. But when you spew out information that should be data SOMEWHERE I have to call you either a liar or someone that provides this info. There are ZERO links to what you say man.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
OK.... I would subscribe to what you say. But where is what YOU say fact? Are you another Hannity babble thing? Or do you have something to back that up?

See folks... opinion is nice. But when you spew out information that should be data SOMEWHERE I have to call you either a liar or someone that provides this info. There are ZERO links to what you say man.
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Have READ the bill? Have ANY of the conservative read the bill? Because it people dont understand it! HERE IS THE BILL:
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
 
wow, someone's self respect is being supplanted by sleaze

Insiders on Capitol Hill are buzzing about an upcoming New York Times exposé that will detail an alleged Boehner affair. Sources say the Times is looking for the right time to drop the story in October to sway the election, similar to how the Times reported during the 2008 presidential campaign on an alleged John McCain affair that supposedly had taken place many years before and that was flatly denied by the woman in question.

While officially the Times tells us, "We don't comment on what may or may not run in future editions of the New York Times," a knowledgeable source at the paper says that the Post story is "utter garbage" and that there's currently "no story" about a Boehner affair in the works. Of course, you never know what might happen now that the rumor is out there.
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Don’t Bet on a Times Boehner Bombshell -- Daily Intel
 
The Giant Noodle said:
I would subscribe to what you say
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well, it's pretty obvious

The Giant Noodle said:
Are you another Hannity babble thing?

But when you spew out information that should be data SOMEWHERE I have to call you either a liar or someone that provides this info.
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so much for dignity

LOL!

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), incoming chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said he plans to hold hearings on Medicare fraud and waste in January and February.
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House GOP plans two-pronged assault on health law - Kendra Marr - POLITICO.com

Upton has also said he’d support aggressive oversight of the Department of Health and Human Services and frequently host Secretary Kathleen Sebelius for hearings.
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http://www.wvgazette.com/News/politico/201012080170

Though Rep. Darrell Issa will consume much of the oversight oxygen this Congress, several other incoming chairmen are itching to get their hands on administration chiefs.

Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, is promising a vigorous attack on health care reform.
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The investigators - Politico Staff - POLITICO.com

WHAT COULD A REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED HOUSE DO?

It could hold hearings on the impact of the health reforms that may sway public opinion against the law and attract support for Republican-backed changes. Such a complex law is bound to run into implementation problems and the majority party in the House controls committee hearing schedules.

One target is the requirement for employers to offer healthcare insurance to employees or pay a tax penalty. Another is the requirement that all Americans buy health insurance.

Another plan would be to block planned reductions in benefits under Medicare, the government-funded health insurance for older Americans, or scale back the expansion of Medicaid, the existing government healthcare program for the poor.
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Can the healthcare overhaul be repealed? | Reuters

House Republicans also pledge to hold tough investigations and hearings on the president's programs and policies, ending the free pass that Democratic committee chairmen gave the Obama administration the past two years.

Republicans insist they'll bring key administration officials before congressional microphones and that the public can watch the webcasts. The friendly tone of inquiry from Democratic chairmen will be replaced by Republicans demanding answers to these questions: What's the purpose of this program? Is this the best use of the taxpayers' money?
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Republicans Look to Impress 2012 Voters in Next Session of Congress - FoxNews.com

In a column published Saturday in The Washington Times, [Joe Barton, Energy and Commerce] said he would scrutinize the cost effects of the health care law as well as the economic impact of the EPA's environmental regulations.

"Our first job will be to find out what's gone wrong. That's why the return of vigorous congressional oversight is going to be a top priority for me and the committee next year," he wrote. "Congress' oversight function is not a license to bully political opponents. Our permanent, constitutional and bipartisan responsibility is, however, to know what is going on in order to devise policy that takes into account actual people who have to pay for and live under our decisions."
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House Republicans Eye Top Committee Posts, Promise Wave of Obama Oversight - FoxNews.com
 
speaking of affairs NOT reported by the msm (until, that is, AFTER the enquirer grabbed hold---LOL!)

jan 6: John Edwards not named in wife Elizabeth's will - Boston.com

jan 7: Enquirer: John Edwards, Rielle Hunter Engaged - CBS News

to be fair, the breck girl denies his betrothal

jan 7: John Edwards Rielle Hunter Affair: Federal Grand Jury Weighs Possible Indictments - ABC News

he's accused of funneling a million dollars of campaign cash to ms hunter to keep her hushed

this was the VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE of the democrat party in 2004, who in his presidential bid that year won south carolina and garnered about a third of progressive votes in iowa, georgia and wisconsin

to be fair, voters didn't know about how sleazy the adulterer was who politically stood to capitalize on his wife's chronic condition

however, in 1980, eleven years AFTER mary jo kopechne, ted kennedy came within just a few states of pushing out jimmy carter for his party's IMPRIMATUR

ie, EVERYONE KNEW by then

you guys really know how to pick em

character counts (for most of us)

party on, prurience peddlars
 
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back to the topic

today:

The Congressional Budget Office, in an email to Capitol Hill staffers obtained by the Spectator, has said that repealing the national health care law would reduce net spending by $540 billion in the ten year period from 2012 through 2021. That number represents the cost of the new provisions, minus Medicare cuts. Repealing the bill would also eliminate $770 billion in taxes. It's the tax hikes in the health care law (along with the Medicare cuts) which accounts for the $230 billion in deficit reduction.
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The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : BREAKING: CBO Says Repealing ObamaCare Would Reduce Net Spending by $540 Billion
 
You folks will NOT focus on the COST that the republicans will WASTE fighting this bill!

Get on target folks! Because right now you ALL are a bunch of bla BEEE blaaaassss!
 
money: half a tril cuts to medicare (while simultaneously expanding its already critically underfunded enrollment by millions of new members)

U.S. Senate Republicans failed in their first major challenge to Democrats’ health-care overhaul legislation, losing a bid to remove more than $400 billion in cuts to Medicare.

The Democratic-led Senate voted 58-42 against Arizona Republican John McCain’s proposal to send the measure back to a committee with orders to strip out the cuts in projected 10-year spending for the Medicare plan for the elderly.
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McCain Loses Bid to Drop Medicare Cuts
 
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