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Thread: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    The Congressional Budget Office, in an email to Capitol Hill staffers obtained by the Spectator, has said that repealing the national health care law would reduce net spending by $540 billion in the ten year period from 2012 through 2021. That number represents the cost of the new provisions, minus Medicare cuts. Repealing the bill would also eliminate $770 billion in taxes. It's the tax hikes in the health care law (along with the Medicare cuts) which accounts for the $230 billion in deficit reduction.

    Full email, from Edward "Sandy" Davis, CBO's Associate Director for Legislative Affairs, below.

    The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : BREAKING: CBO Says Repealing ObamaCare Would Reduce Net Spending by $540 Billion

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    The Congressional Budget Office, in an email to Capitol Hill staffers obtained by the Spectator, has said that repealing the national health care law would reduce net spending by $540 billion in the ten year period from 2012 through 2021. That number represents the cost of the new provisions, minus Medicare cuts. Repealing the bill would also eliminate $770 billion in taxes. It's the tax hikes in the health care law (along with the Medicare cuts) which accounts for the $230 billion in deficit reduction.

    Full email, from Edward "Sandy" Davis, CBO's Associate Director for Legislative Affairs, below.

    The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : BREAKING: CBO Says Repealing ObamaCare Would Reduce Net Spending by $540 Billion
    Anything from a valid source? It's a different question, but I would still prefer to see something mainstream.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Anything from a valid source? It's a different question, but I would still prefer to see something mainstream.
    Did you go to the link? How more valid can you get than the actual e-mail put out by the CBO. When I studied History we called that a primary source

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Debatable, but the Harvard article addresses that. And shows that despite the uncertainty, jobs here have been added, and they will be lost with repeal.
    Jobs have been lost since Obama signed the stimulus as the actual results show. 4 million less employed today than when Obama signed the stimulus so you can point to jobs being created but until those jobs even meet the labor market on December 31, 2008 there have been no successes of this Administration. Jobs being created have not offset the people leaving the labor force. I don't have a lot of use for intellectual studies based upon ignorance of the actual facts which come from BLS.gov and the picture that BLS doesn't even paint, those not counted, business owners and contract employees that are unemployed today.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    Did you go to the link? How more valid can you get than the actual e-mail put out by the CBO. When I studied History we called that a primary source
    Yes, I did. How do I know this is the actual email? Must I accept this on faith, because they told me it was?

    When you evaluate sources, you ask, OK, where else is this found? Is it only found in like minded sources? If so, less likely to be valid. Does the source have a history of being accurate?

    So, I ask, what else do you have to support this?

    Perhaps, we should wait until the CBO posts this, like this email reproduction suggests before we accept it completely?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Jobs have been lost since Obama signed the stimulus as the actual results show. 4 million less employed today than when Obama signed the stimulus so you can point to jobs being created but until those jobs even meet the labor market on December 31, 2008 there have been no successes of this Administration. Jobs being created have not offset the people leaving the labor force. I don't have a lot of use for intellectual studies based upon ignorance of the actual facts which come from BLS.gov and the picture that BLS doesn't even paint, those not counted, business owners and contract employees that are unemployed today.
    Yes, lost before, during and after. I had a boat once with a hole in it. If you let it sit in the water it would sink. But you could travel across the lake while baling water. We took in a lot of water, but did much better by bailing it out than we would have had we just let the water come in. To some, they kept pointing out the boat was taking water. Others noted that we got to the other side.

    Fixing the leak is better, but if you can't all at once, and still have to get to the other side, bailing is the next best option. At least until you can fix the leak.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Are you so intellectually without a clue that you don't get it that tens of millions cannot AFFORD to purchase private medical insurance?
    not any more they can't. Obamacare prices them out of the market by getting rid of high-deductible plans.

    however, of the Uninsured In America:

    In 2006, the Census Bureau estimates of the uninsured reached 47 million, representing approximately 16 percent of the population. While this number has dominated nearly all healthcare policy debates, it unfortunately remains a relatively coarse measurement and provides little substantive information about the uninsured that can be used to craft effective policy solutions. For example, it is often assumed—without any quantitative evidence—that nearly all of these uninsured individuals lack coverage because they are unable to afford it...

    Drs. June and David O’Neill of the Baruch College, City University of New York use data from a number of surveys to determine what percentage of the nearly 47 million uninsured Americans lack health insurance because they are likely unable to afford it—classifying them as “involuntarily” uninsured. They find that at least 43 percent of Americans in the 18–64 year-old age group have incomes at or above 2.5 times the poverty line, indicating they likely have the means to obtain healthcare coverage and thus may be classified as “voluntarily” uninsured....

    Nearly 10 million (9.7) of the 45.7 million uninsured are “not a citizen.”
    ...
    More than 17 million of the uninsured make at least $50,000 per year
    ...
    The National Center for Policy Analysis estimates that uninsured people get about $1,500 of free health care per year, or $6,000 per family of four.
    ...
    An Urban Institute study found that 25 percent of the uninsured already qualify for government health insurance programs.
    ...
    The Congressional Budget Office says that 45 percent of the uninsured will be insured within four months. CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin also said that the frequent claim of 40+ million Americans lacking insurance is an “incomplete and potentially misleading picture of the uninsured population.” CBO analysis also found that 36 million people would remain uninsured even if the Senate’s $1.6 trillion health care plan is passed.
    ...
    Liberal non-profit Kaiser Family Foundation put the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 8.2 million and 13.9 million.

    Are you so intellectually without a clue that you would rather people get rushed to the ER in life threatening conditions which cost a whole lot more than simple early treatment would have cost?
    please. the cost of uninsured in ER's is less than the actual costs of the tort lawsuits themselves (saying nothing of the defensive medicine).

    You and many on the far right here get your impressions of society from sources that have nothing to do with the day to day reality of millions of peoples lives.
    says the guy who's been protected by the public sector unions for decades

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, lost before, during and after. I had a boat once with a hole in it. If you let it sit in the water it would sink. But you could travel across the lake while baling water. We took in a lot of water, but did much better by bailing it out than we would have had we just let the water come in. To some, they kept pointing out the boat was taking water. Others noted that we got to the other side.

    Fixing the leak is better, but if you can't all at once, and still have to get to the other side, bailing is the next best option. At least until you can fix the leak.
    Look, you aren't going to change my mind and apparently I am not going to change yours. I believe healthcare is a state and local issue, not a Federal Issue. Nothing you have stated changes my mind and I have history on my side regarding actual results. Since you put your faith in numbers, tell me why some states' healthcare costs are higher than others and what are the states with lower healthcare costs doing that could be duplicated in others? That is where the effort should be placed, not massive overhaul.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Jobs are being lost now due to the uncertainty of Obamacare. No business is going to hire anyone not knowing the cost of hiring that individual. Money spent by the private sector isn't offset by the costs associated with the same dollar spent by the public sector. The American taxpayer doesn't fund private sector spending but it does fund public sector speding. Private sector expense generates 100% benefit to the economy, public sector spending benefit is reduced by the amount of debt that funds it.
    I am an employer, I can assure you that my staff level is much more controlled by the demand for my products than the cost of insurance or any impending fine for so providing insurance. Simply put, I will not hire more people than I need to fill orders for the products that we make - regardless of the cost of labor.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Look, you aren't going to change my mind and apparently I am not going to change yours. I believe healthcare is a state and local issue, not a Federal Issue. Nothing you have stated changes my mind and I have history on my side regarding actual results. Since you put your faith in numbers, tell me why some states' healthcare costs are higher than others and what are the states with lower healthcare costs doing that could be duplicated in others? That is where the effort should be placed, not massive overhaul.
    Any two sitautions and people are not exactly the same. The Packers defense might handle New Englands offense Better than the Falcon's, but we would not argue that the NE offense isn't a problem for all defenses. Expecting all to be the same without any varience isn't enough in and of itself to dispute what is being argued here. Across the country, people are paying more for less, access is limited for too many, hosptials have to take in people who don't pay, and those costs get passed on to everyone, and those are just a few of the problems. Ad hock, state by state, little has been done to effectively change the course. And it seems unlikley that anything short of a universal payer actually ever will, IMHO.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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