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Thread: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    WTH do you think medicaid and medicare are? Or the VA? Or the CDC? Or the NIH?
    What does Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA have to do with Obamacare? They are however three programs that are already in place so along with private insurance why do we need Obamacare and how will repealing it cost 230 billion dollars?

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What does Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA have to do with Obamacare? They are however three programs that are already in place so along with private insurance why do we need Obamacare and how will repealing it cost 230 billion dollars?

    The healthcare industry contributes greatly to our GDP and it doesn't cost taxpayer dollars.
    Did you not say this?

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    WTH do you think medicaid and medicare are?
    they are programs maybe a hundred million americans have come to depend on like life itself

    they are programs obamacare massively expands without funding, in the case of medicare obamacare actually CUTS half a T

    Medicaid exists to give low-income families, especially low-income mothers and their children, access to health care. But for millions of Americans, Medicaid is an illusion. It is the appearance of coverage — without the power of access.

    The program is administered by states and funded jointly by states and the federal government. And it is bankrupting both, along with physicians and hospitals.

    Last year, the federal government spent $251 billion on Medicaid. Washington’s Medicaid tab is expected to rise to $458 billion by 2019, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    For state governments, most of which must balance their budgets annually, Medicaid’s escalating growth is ruinous. Responding to rising costs and budgetary pressures, 48 states were forced to adopt “at least one new policy” to restrict their ballooning Medicaid costs in 2010, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

    Twenty states adopted Medicaid benefit restrictions, and 14 signaled intent to cut benefits next year. Thirty-nine states imposed a provider rate cut or freeze this year, and 37 plan to do so in 2011 — despite the fact that Medicaid pays providers significantly less than any other insurer and frequently less than cost.

    Consequently, patients suffer. In a March 15, 2010, article titled “As Medicaid Payments Shrink, Patients Are Abandoned,” The New York Times chronicled the experiences of several patients whose Medicaid coverage would not cover needed care. One was Carol Y. Vliet, who could not find a doctor to treat her metastatic cancer after Michigan imposed yet another round of Medicaid provider payment cuts. Vliet died seven days after the article appeared.

    Cases like Vliet’s are now all too common among Medicaid patients. A recent study of surgical outcomes found that patients are roughly as well off having Medicaid as they are having no health insurance, and “Medicaid payer status was associated with the longest length of stay and highest total costs” of any payer source.

    All this is before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which would put 16 million more Americans on Medicaid. Once the new law is fully in effect, roughly one in five Americans will carry a Medicaid card. But the combination of rapid beneficiary growth with benefit and provider cuts threatens to render their cards useless.
    Opinion: The dangers of the Medicaid illusion - Rep. Bill Cassidy - POLITICO.com

    would you like now to look at medicare, per the times?

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Did you not say this?
    I forgot who I was dealing with, I was talking about private healthcare companies. What Obamacare does is add to the debt thus this thread topic just perpetuates a lie.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I forgot who I was dealing with, I was talking about private healthcare companies. What Obamacare does is add to the debt thus this thread topic just perpetuates a lie.

    Okay sir sophistry. If you don't think that medicare or medicaid or the CDC or the NIH don't contribute to the GDP so be it.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I posted this on the other thread as well as posted it yesterday, looks to me like you ignored it just like you ignore anything else that contradicts your opinions. Here is why the CBO numbers are wrong. Pay attention to the assumptions and tell me why you don't agree?

    Review & Outlook: ObamaCare's Reality Deficit - WSJ.com
    I haven't ignored it. The WSJ has some nice opinion pieces. Enjoy reading them myself. However, there's nothing new in this opinion than has been said before. And nothing we haven't discussed. You just have someone who agrees with you saying it.

    Yes, they score what is in front of them. And what is or isn't realistic is often a subjective reading (opinion), and not anything as sound as say math or science.

    I have not claimed that the CBO will give us the exact numbers. I have used other sources to show that not only the CBO reaches this conclusion. So, there is enough evidence to show repeal will be costly as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I haven't ignored it. The WSJ has some nice opinion pieces. Enjoy reading them myself. However, there's nothing new in this opinion than has been said before. And nothing we haven't discussed. You just have someone who agrees with you saying it.

    Yes, they score what is in front of them. And what is or isn't realistic is often a subjective reading (opinion), and not anything as sound as say math or science.

    I have not claimed that the CBO will give us the exact numbers. I have used other sources to show that not only the CBO reaches this conclusion. So, there is enough evidence to show repeal will be costly as well.
    To the best of my knowledge, no you didn't make the claim but you haven't refuted it either. There is NO evidence that repealing something that won't go into effect for another 3 years will be costly just like there is no evidence that access, quality, and quantity of care will improve.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, no you didn't make the claim but you haven't refuted it either. There is NO evidence that repealing something that won't go into effect for another 3 years will be costly just like there is no evidence that access, quality, and quantity of care will improve.
    Follow the argument. As the fellow from Harvrd pointed out, jobs will be lost, to start with. Money not spent by customers will effect many things, including jobs. So, there is good reason to see that it will be costly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Follow the argument. As the fellow from Harvrd pointed out, jobs will be lost, to start with. Money not spent by customers will effect many things, including jobs. So, there is good reason to see that it will be costly.
    Jobs are being lost now due to the uncertainty of Obamacare. No business is going to hire anyone not knowing the cost of hiring that individual. Money spent by the private sector isn't offset by the costs associated with the same dollar spent by the public sector. The American taxpayer doesn't fund private sector spending but it does fund public sector spending. Private sector expense generates 100% benefit to the economy, public sector spending benefit is reduced by the amount of debt that funds it.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Jobs are being lost now due to the uncertainty of Obamacare. No business is going to hire anyone not knowing the cost of hiring that individual. Money spent by the private sector isn't offset by the costs associated with the same dollar spent by the public sector. The American taxpayer doesn't fund private sector spending but it does fund public sector spending. Private sector expense generates 100% benefit to the economy, public sector spending benefit is reduced by the amount of debt that funds it.
    Debatable, but the Harvard article addresses that. And shows that despite the uncertainty, jobs here have been added, and they will be lost with repeal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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