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Thread: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I explained why I said by new power. Lets start off either zero powers, ok, now you add one, then another, then another. This is what the framers did, understand now that every line didn't give power. Maybe I didn't use the right term there, but you should get the point.

    The clause you are talking about, again, doesn't give any power to the federal government. I'm not talking about here in this individual case, I'm talking in general. It doesn't give them power to do anything that wasn't already given.
    I think you should read that section of the Constitution again, specifically where the title reads, "Powers of Congress", but more clarative, "The Congress shall have Power To..."

    Do what? Where the health care reform law is concerned...

    1. levy taxes.

    2. regulate commerce...between the several states.

    3. make laws that are necessary and proper in carrying out the foregoing powers.

    Therefore, if your point is that the last clause of Art 1, Section 8 is clarative, that all it does is reaffirm all the powers granted to Congress in the preceeding clauses, then to that I would agree to an extend. Still, the mere fact that the Constitution does grant Congress the power to make laws that, in its view, address the overwriting concerns for the nation and can levy taxes to address those concerns where interstate commerce is concerned gives them justification enough. The only question that remains is did Congress overstep its bounds where health care reform, more specifically, the individual mandate, is concerned? Again, I'll leave that to the Supreme Court to decide.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think you should read that section of the Constitution again, specifically where the title reads, "Powers of Congress", but more clarative, "The Congress shall have Power To..."

    Do what? Where the health care reform law is concerned...

    1. levy taxes.

    2. regulate commerce...between the several states.

    3. make laws that are necessary and proper in carrying out the foregoing powers.

    Therefore, if your point is that the last clause of Art 1, Section 8 is clarative, that all it does is reaffirm all the powers granted to Congress in the preceeding clauses, then to that I would agree to an extend. Still, the mere fact that the Constitution does grant Congress the power to make laws that, in its view, address the overwriting concerns for the nation and can levy taxes to address those concerns where interstate commerce is concerned gives them justification enough. The only question that remains is did Congress overstep its bounds where health care reform, more specifically, the individual mandate, is concerned? Again, I'll leave that to the Supreme Court to decide.
    Without the individual mandate the program is dead. It is unsustainable unless everyone is forced to participate and I believe that is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Without the individual mandate the program is dead. It is unsustainable unless everyone is forced to participate and I believe that is unconstitutional.
    Surprisingly my friend. Although we butt heads.

    I personally believe the mandate is absolute bull**** as well. I wouldn't accept that.

    Even here in Canada we may have to use Government health care, but we're not forced to get it if we don't want.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Individual responsibly doesn't mean they have to be responsible or they will be forced. Freedom isn't a golden bridge, its a bridge covered in spikes and must be protected. That doesn't mean you shouldn't hold individual responsibly high, you can do so easily while teaching people how to act responsibility. Whatever you do saying responsibility is more important than freedom is absurdity.
    Didn't say that at all. However, with freedom comes responsibility...the "freedom" to conduct our lives in a responsible manner. How you exercise that freedom is a choice. Where the mandate is concerned, it's basically saying, "if you don't act responsibly and acquire health insurance if you can afford it, you will be penalized until you take responsible action because your inaction is having a negative impact on the greater society, the economy and quite possibly yourself."

    Again, I'm more than willing to let the Supreme Court tackle this one because it is within Congress' power to make laws based on the overriding need of the country. Nonetheless, as I've said before if Republicans honestly believe that the law is wrong or flawed the best thing they could do is work w/Dems to fix what they consider to be broken with the law.

    With that, I'm out.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 01-07-11 at 11:38 PM.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Bottom line is Republicans are going to cost this Country billions on something that MIGHT work. Im not a fan of the bill but this MIGHT work and actually SAVE money in the long run. Also I DONT think this is something that Americans want to repeal. Either way the whole way about reducing health care costs is WRONG! The Canadian system WORKS! (dont you DARE say it doesnt because I shall bombard you at every point)

    Americas health care kills over 800% more people than DUIs. It rates LESS than the lower 30 countries. It is also the most EXPENSIVE health care in the world.
    Any I wrong with my facts folks?!??! Please prove me wrong
    CORPORATE GREED AND UNION GREED
    DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS
    DESTROYING THE BEST OF AMERICA ONE DAY AT A TIME

    This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against ME! ~ Bender

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Bottom line is Republicans are going to cost this Country billions on something that MIGHT work. Im not a fan of the bill but this MIGHT work and actually SAVE money in the long run. Also I DONT think this is something that Americans want to repeal. Either way the whole way about reducing health care costs is WRONG! The Canadian system WORKS! (dont you DARE say it doesnt because I shall bombard you at every point)

    Americas health care kills over 800% more people than DUIs. It rates LESS than the lower 30 countries. It is also the most EXPENSIVE health care in the world.
    Any I wrong with my facts folks?!??! Please prove me wrong
    You sure put a lot of faith in the U.S. Federal Govt. Where does that faith come from? Name for me one Federally run program that cost what it was supposed to cost? Check out Medicare for example and then SS. You are betting that for some reason this program is different. I will be happy to answer your questions and give you data when you answer mine. We do have a Constitution and freedoms. There is no evidence that America's healthcare kills over 800% more than DUI's. Prove it. Every year life expectancy is increasing and what you want to do is force people to buy something that many don't want to buy and that is unconstitutional IMO. The Supreme Court will decide.

    Can you explain to me why Europe is reversing its healthcare program and making it more market base but the U.S. is going to opposite direction?

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    There are to many Republicans in bed with lobbyists (especially Boehner).
    obama and dodd were the top recipients of aig cash

    Critics Got Donations From Insurer - WSJ.com

    some pretty ugly things went down subsequent

    Geithner's New York Fed Pushed AIG To Keep Sweetheart Deals Secret (READ THE AIG EMAILS)

    and then dodd and geithner grandfathered those gross aig bonuses

    Obama Administration: We Didn't Find Out About AIG Bonuses Until This Month - Political Punch

    stay up, i appreciate and applaud your self respect

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Show us which one of Bush's policies caused the depression.
    this morning in an interview with anderson cooper (son of the poor little rich girl, gloria vanderbilt), the ripped off speakeress actually tried to BLAME BUSH for dems losing the house

    Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

    LOL!
    Last edited by The Prof; 01-08-11 at 12:43 AM.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Without the individual mandate the program is dead
    finally

    that's EXACTLY it

    without the mandate the "young invulnerables," upon whom all depend to balance all us oldsters, will flee

    without the mandate, the entire financial underpinning of obamacare gets violently kicked out

    and with ms mccaskill upstairs indicating movement...

    it's a done deal downstairs, anytime we want

    way to see moves ahead, friend, keep up the good work
    Last edited by The Prof; 01-08-11 at 12:50 AM.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Bottom line is Republicans are going to cost this Country billions on something that MIGHT work. Im not a fan of the bill but this MIGHT work and actually SAVE money in the long run.
    ouch

    MIGHT aint good enough

    you can't radically redraw one sixth of the us economy on a MAYBE

    when you're president, when you're leadership, you gotta know

    not a good point, in my opinion

    Also I DONT think this is something that Americans want to repeal.
    the results of the last election indicate serious reservation concerning obamacare, republicans were sent to washington in record numbers for a reason

    one of the most important and underlooked FRONTS of the coming REPEAL WARS, which will go on probably for years, is HEARINGS

    fred the slasher upton at energy and commerce (this is henry waxman's committee, perhaps you recall arkansas' mike ross leading a bluedog rebellion vs waxman/obama in the summer of 09 which went on for weeks) will have lots to look into, reveal and expose about this bill (the ten years of taxes vs 6 years of coverage, the cbo's claim that a quarter trillion is double counted, ryan's rub, and many other things)

    issa on oversight, ron paul on financial services, spencer bacchus, paul ryan on budget...

    to repeal or not to repeal will go far to define the 2012 landscape, and as ms pelosi herself said there is much in this bill that americans won't know about until after its passage

    links available, mostly politico

    ie, the pros are looking this many moves ahead

    stay up

    dignity

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