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Thread: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hospitals haven't closed in MA either. Again, you're overraching here, badly. Sorry.
    Who said hospitals closed in MA? I said that ER use is skyrocketing and raising costs. Here is a perfect example of liberals ignoring actual results to promote another agenda. Part of Obamacare savings was predicated on lower ER costs, that hasn't happened in MA but when you add 40 million more nationwide it will? LOL, you are the one that needs to apologize for your stance on this issue and for the disaster that Obama has created.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really. Government didn't just decide these things. People did.
    Of course government decided on action. People might have asked for it, but the person or group that does an action is always responsible for it.

    Take not turning people away from emergency rooms. There was a time when hospitals did just that, even in life threatening situations. Not all did, but because they could, it happened. Those without insurance were sent to charity hospitals, even if they were too far away, costing lives. Again, there were good people who defied such thinking and treated and then sent, but the law allowed them to be shipped off. I remember one case in Georgia before the law was even intorduced that upset people a great deal, and people wrote letters and lobbied for laws to prevent such tragedy. So, it wasn't a case of government simply jumping to this conclusion. it was bore out of events that cased peole to take notice. People decided.
    They could of taken their own power in hand, but instead they decided to give their power up. Instead what happened was the government decided it wasn't within the hospitals rights to deny people care. Therefore denying a right, taking power, and creating a bad law.

    But, like in most cases, they discionnect themselves from what the actions cost. Because they didn't required, hell didn't even want to hear about, any cost issues, they did this with no organized plan on how to handle the cost, as if the treratment would be free. It's not. We all pay for everyone who is treated but can't pay. And we have no mechanism to even assess if we're charged fairly.
    I agree with the first part. The last sentence is just a talking point. Fairness is decided by the market. If people in the market don't like it they don't have to be involved. Yes, even in healthcare.

    And while all groups cost, those who pay, pay what they cost. You don't have to ask others to pay for them. They pay their bill, and they pay their premium. So, the larger problem are those who get service but pay nothing, or next to nothing. That means the total cost is passed on. Hosptials don't eat the cost. Sorry.
    Reimbursements from insurance companies for a long time now have not been reliable on covering the cost of care. Recently, declining reimbursements from insurance companies, increasing cost of care, labor shortages, rising cost by an aging population has been a cause in hospitals failing.

    Government care as in Medicare is part of this problem but instead of working out reimbursements with the hospital they dictate cost to the hospital. Making it far more of a problem than insurance companies that at least do that.

    Either way you look at, hospitals have been losing money for a long time across the board in all three areas.
    Last edited by Henrin; 01-07-11 at 05:17 PM.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Who said hospitals closed in MA? I said that ER use is skyrocketing and raising costs. Here is a perfect example of liberals ignoring actual results to promote another agenda. Part of Obamacare savings was predicated on lower ER costs, that hasn't happened in MA but when you add 40 million more nationwide it will? LOL, you are the one that needs to apologize for your stance on this issue and for the disaster that Obama has created.
    Do you read your posts? Go back and try to follow our discussion. When you catch up, we can continue.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Where have Republicans stated that the CBO did anything wrong ???

    Answer: They haven't. They said the Dems gave the CBO lousy assumptions to base their calculations on.

    Garbage in - Garbage out.
    That's just passing the buck because both parties know the CBO doesn't make its estimates based on word-of-mouth. They take the legislation either as proposed or as passed and based their reports on their findings most times using calculating models of their own design. If they used "assumptions" given by either party, they're really not being non-partisan, now are they?

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Everyone who wants to drive yes. You distinction has no point. It is a limitation of choice all the same.

    And you eight year old grand daughter doesn't drive. if she did, she'd have to hacve insurance. however, she may well need health care, and if she is not covered, she will burden others, the ssame reasoning for having auto insurance.

    Again, you are side stepping the issue and ignoring the actual issue.
    Bingo !!! The only people required to have auto insurance are those that own autos. If you don't have a car, the government doesn't require you to have insurance. Your repeated side stepping of this central issue is really getting comical.

    You side stepped my last point and question also (color me shocked):

    Name another service or product that the federal government requires every man, woman, and child in the country to buy from a private company ...

    I'll still be waiting............

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Moderator's Warning:
    Health care repeal will cost 0 billionOkay folks, let's stick to the topic.
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you read your posts? Go back and try to follow our discussion. When you catch up, we can continue.
    I not only read the post but hit the enter key to post it. I said that 45 Doctor Owned hospitals have stopped construction and posted the link. It had nothing to do with MA but it will compound the problem nationwide. I will wait for yo uto catch up and actually respond to the MA results.

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Death panels, really, you still pushing that nonsense?
    no, the white house SURRENDERED the panels again---wednesday

    Politics trump policy on 'death panels' - Brett Coughlin - POLITICO.com

    it's because the sunday nyt reported congressman blumenauer's email celebrating the funding of the advisories, then whispering to his supporters, "shh, don't tell"

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That's just passing the buck because both parties know the CBO doesn't make its estimates based on word-of-mouth. They take the legislation either as proposed or as passed and based their reports on their findings most times using calculating models of their own design. If they used "assumptions" given by either party, they're really not being non-partisan, now are they?
    I posted the assumptions provided in the healthcare bill given to the CBO for scoring. did you read the assumptions and if so which ones are accurate? 500 billion in Medicare cuts? Increased taxes on high end policiies? Complete participation on the part of all Americans? There are more so read the assumptions then tell me what happens if those assumptions are wrong? Where are the savings?

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    Re: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion

    [QUOTE=Henrin;1059203728]
    Of course government decided on action. People might have asked for it, but the person or group that does an action is always responsible for it.

    They could of taken their own power in hand, but instead they decided to give their power up. Instead what happened was the government decided it wasn't within the hospitals rights to deny people care. Therefore denying a right, taking power, and creating a bad law.
    People are the government. The government answers to the people. and take it their own hands how? Peoople told their elected officals denying care wasn't right, voted accordingly, and laws were passed. You can't remove the people from this. Sorry.

    I agree with the first part. The last sentence is just a talking point. Fairness is decided by the market. If people in the market don't like it they don't have to be involved. Yes, even in healthcare.
    I think the talking point claim is just silliness. Perhaps an effort to ignore the point. But lets look at it. Non one said a thing about fairness. Not one word. So, you brining it up seems odd. The market merely raised costs, as expected. health care isn't free. So, if people want emergencies treated, responsible people seek a mechanism to have them paid for. If they don't want to pay for them, then they can't ask that they be treated. In otherwords, turn people away from care.

    Reimbursements from insurance companies for a long time now have not been reliable on covering the cost of care. Recently, declining reimbursements from insurance companies, increasing cost of care, labor shortages, rising cost by an aging population has been a cause in hospitals failing.
    It's a problem that has not be adequately addressed. I agree.

    Government care as in Medicare is part of this problem but instead of working out reimbursements with the hospital they dictate cost to the hospital. Making it far more of a problem than insurance companies that at least do that.
    The problem is that medicare and medicaid are tackling populations most likely to be in poor health, with no benefit from people who are less likely to need care, like insurance companies have. It is tackling too much without the benefit of the entire population. Add to it people trying to limit funding, and the problem grows larger. This is some a univerisal insurer would help.

    Either way you look at, hospitals have been losing money for a long time across the board in all three areas.
    Losing money? Who says this? I've worked at several, and they have been booming. We pay for every short coming they have. They're not doing work with out making up the cost somewhere.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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