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Thread: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

  1. #101
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When you look at the track record of the congress critters that are leaving, I think there's a huge improvement; by their absence, if for no other reason.
    Perosnally, I'll withold judgment on whether or not it's an improvement until they actually do something that shows it is an improvement. Addition by substraction only occurs when that which is added doesn't regress to the mean.
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  2. #102
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Perosnally, I'll withold judgment on whether or not it's an improvement until they actually do something that shows it is an improvement. Addition by substraction only occurs when that which is added doesn't regress to the mean.
    The fewer congress critters that think they--not the people--can fix everything that's wrong with the country is a vast improvement. I agree that only time will tell, but I'm more optimistic than I was a year ago. The Reps have already gone after over-regulation by the EPA. That's a good sign, to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I agree that only time will tell, but I'm more optimistic than I was a year ago.
    That's a reasonable approach. Personally, I'm more cynical.
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  4. #104
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That's a reasonable approach. Personally, I'm more cynical.
    I understand and I reckon we'll see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #105
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    There is value in showing the parts that are no longer applicable in this context is to show that there is a clear and defined method for overturning aspects of the constitution, and governing from a constitutionally sound basis isn't something set in stone.

    By purposefully removing the parts that are no longer applicable, one is presneting things as though everything that is currently applicable must always remain so.

    That is a misrepresentation of what is constitutionally sound.
    Only true if you're also leaving out the portion of the constitution that details the process in which such things have been overturned or removed

  6. #106
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Only true if you're also leaving out the portion of the constitution that details the process in which such things have been overturned or removed
    Good point.
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Good point.
    I get your point Tuck, and I don't think there would be any harm in reading those sections. I don't think there's any harm in NOT reading them either. To me it just seems like a silly thing to be arguing about or try to make hay out of. I don't think there's any devious attempts to revisitionist history here, or underhanded motives of wanting to somehow white wash over embaressment, or other such stuff. I can understand thinking the notion, as a whole, is stupid or useless or hollow even if I may not fully agree. But that is an entirely seperate issue. I just don't see the big rally against the republicans point in this.

  8. #108
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To me it just seems like a silly thing to be arguing about or try to make hay out of.
    It is, to me, only something to make hay out of because they tried to make hay out of the reading of the Constitution to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I can understand thinking the notion, as a whole, is stupid or useless or hollow even if I may not fully agree. But that is an entirely seperate issue. I just don't see the big rally against the republicans point in this.
    I do think that the notion, as a whole, is stupid and useless and hollow. My argument is that if you're going to trumpet such behavior and then turn around at the last minute and do it half-way, that's even worse than the original useless, hollow stupidity.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #109
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I get your point Tuck, and I don't think there would be any harm in reading those sections. I don't think there's any harm in NOT reading them either. To me it just seems like a silly thing to be arguing about or try to make hay out of. I don't think there's any devious attempts to revisitionist history here, or underhanded motives of wanting to somehow white wash over embaressment, or other such stuff. I can understand thinking the notion, as a whole, is stupid or useless or hollow even if I may not fully agree. But that is an entirely seperate issue. I just don't see the big rally against the republicans point in this.
    I think my problem with not reading them is that it seems like it is trying to sweep our less savory history under the carpet.

    After thinking about it, this is somewhat emotional reasoning on my part, and looking back at my comments in light of your pointing out the obvious to me in post #105, however, I realize that I was trying to use the ammendment process argument to justify my distaste for the appearance of sweeping our les savory history under the carpet.

    I still find it distasteful to remove those portions from the reading, but I don't have a very strong argumetn for why it is distasteful to me other than the way it appears to me.
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  10. #110
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    Re: After some wrangling, U.S. Constitution is read in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I get your point Tuck, and I don't think there would be any harm in reading those sections. I don't think there's any harm in NOT reading them either. To me it just seems like a silly thing to be arguing about or try to make hay out of. I don't think there's any devious attempts to revisitionist history here, or underhanded motives of wanting to somehow white wash over embaressment, or other such stuff. I can understand thinking the notion, as a whole, is stupid or useless or hollow even if I may not fully agree. But that is an entirely seperate issue. I just don't see the big rally against the republicans point in this.
    The embarassment of the 3/5 clause? Nothing to be embarassed about.

    In Retrospect: The 3/5ths Clause of the Constitution | Redstate
    Not many people who huff and puff and level the accusing finger at the nation's founders about it seem to be aware that the Slave States' representatives at the Constitutional Convention were the ones demanding that slaves be counted as full persons, while the Free states' spokesmen were the ones demanding that they not be counted at all.
    In other words, it was the Free States that forced the 3/5ths Clause unto the Constitution of the United States - which may lead us to ask, just who were the good guys here? The guys who wanted to count slaves as full people or those who didn't want to count them at all?
    Well, the latter.
    Slavery in America may well have lasted well into the 20th Century if the Slave States have had their way in Philadelphia, and it probably would have ended well before the 1860s if the Free States had won entirely and a slave had counted for 0% of a human being.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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