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US Treasury asks Congress to lift debt ceiling

Spaceman_Spiff said:
Republicans acknowledge debt limit should rise | Reuters
Even Republican leadership understands the dire need to raise our nation's debt ceiling. I guess now the only people who want to see the United States default on her debt, further stagnating an economic recovery, are Tea Partiers.
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Or anyone who wants to see the government crash completely in order to gain political edge over the Democrats, and aren't concerned with the people who will get hurt by it.

... there's a bit of overlap.
 
ricksfolly said:
Not that simple... Congress needs more money to create more needed jobs (infrastructure, dams, etc.) to keep priming the motor, without it, the country would lose all the advances it has made. It's about more charity. It's about doing something NOW, not just hoping the economy will recover by itself. Never has never will.

Maybe, just maybe congress will finally do what the people voted for them to do, not play political gotcha ya ya ya games like little children.

ricksfolly
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...ah, but the political gotcha ya ya ya games have just begun.... and will be played at a level never before seen.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Great idea

Watch the military grind to a halt as service members dont get paid, contractors walk off the job as they wont get paid, jets get grounded as they dont have fuel to fly them

Watch as grandma and grandpa get kicked out of the old folks home in the middle of winter and freezes to death

Watch as hospitals form death panels to kill off all the medicare patients whose bills are not longer being paid

Top notch idea, I say roll with it
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the only aspect of your rant that should involve federal money is the military.
 
Wiseone said:
The US treasury isn't spending the money, Congress is. The US Treasury is merely asking the Congress for permission to borrow money that Congress has already allocated to be spent. The Treasury is just doing its job and making that the Congress's budget is paid for not, its NOT a partisan part of government. The real problem is Congress spending the money.
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A separate bipartisan group of congress people called the Ways and Means Committee make final decisions on if and where tax money is spent.

ricksfolly
 
apdst said:
Yeah, because as The One finally admitted, there's no such thing as a shovel ready project.
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True, but that's because congress has no group or team assigned to making it happen. Investigations and bids take months or even years to put together.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
True, but that's because congress has no group or team assigned to making it happen. Investigations and bids take months or even years to put together.

ricksfolly
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All the more evidence that the trillion+ dollar robulus spending was the biggest waste of money in the history of this country.
 
apdst said:
All the more evidence that the trillion+ dollar robulus spending was the biggest waste of money in the history of this country.
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Can you answer a very simple, yes or no, question? Is government spending a component to aggregate GDP?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Can you answer a very simple, yes or no, question? Is government spending a component to aggregate GDP?
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Sure it is, but government spending dominating the GDP isn't going to improve the economy.
 
apdst said:
Sure it is, but government spending dominating the GDP isn't going to improve the economy.
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Government spending does not dominate GDP. As evident by job loss numbers, the other two critical aspects (consumption and investment) fell. Given that GDP is the combination of consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports, increases in government spending during economic contractions (where consumption and investment are extremely sensitive) prevents total GDP from falling in a dramatic fashion.

If government spending did not increase during this past recession, GDP would have fallen by more than $1 trillion.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Government spending does not dominate GDP. As evident by job loss numbers, the other two critical aspects (consumption and investment) fell. Given that GDP is the combination of consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports, increases in government spending during economic contractions (where consumption and investment are extremely sensitive) prevents total GDP from falling in a dramatic fashion.

If government spending did not increase during this past recession, GDP would have fallen by more than $1 trillion.
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How was the economy repaired? Answer: it wasn't.
 
Redress said:
The government is not a business.
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And therin lies the root problem. The govt is not a business and does not have to make a profit (or even break even) , If the govt were required to balance what they spend, with what they take in, then we would not have this deficit problem in the first place. And then no thread here.

If my business could take money from customers without giving a benefit, I would probably spend more than I earn too.

It just doesn't work in real life for very long.
 
apdst said:
How was the economy repaired? Answer: it wasn't.
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Nobody claimed it was repaired, only that we did not fall into full scale depression if government spending was kept at 2007 levels.
 
ricksfolly said:
Not that simple... Congress needs more money to create more needed jobs (infrastructure, dams, etc.) to keep priming the motor, without it, the country would lose all the advances it has made. It's about more charity. It's about doing something NOW, not just hoping the economy will recover by itself. Never has never will.

Maybe, just maybe congress will finally do what the people voted for them to do, not play political gotcha ya ya ya games like little children.

ricksfolly
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But it IS quite that simple, just don't spend the money that you don't have, Just like the rest of US.
 
cholla said:
But it IS quite that simple, just don't spend the money that you don't have, Just like the rest of US.
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And if that money was not spent, do you honestly believe the economy would be better off?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Nobody claimed it was repaired, only that we did not fall into full scale depression if government spending was kept at 2007 levels.
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That's just a talking point. There's no way to prove that it made a difference. That's along the same lines as, "jobs created, or saved". It's political bull****, since there's no way to measure that.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Let's get reality out of the way: The debt ceiling will be raised. End of story.

Federal Government revenue as a percentage of GDP is still at historic lows. In a normally functioning economy, revenue as a % of GDP > 18%, more specifically it should be 19.5%.

Government Revenue as a % of GDP as a function of time
Chapter4.08.1.01.png


Cutting spending to reflect revenue during this stage of the recovery will definitely send us crashing back to not just a recession, but a full out depression. Given that the deficit is around 12.5% of GDP, cutting that to zero will reduce GDP roughly by that amount. The empirical relationship of GDP and unemployment states that this will push the U-3 unemployment average just over 15%, and the U-6 measurement (that partisans have taken a liking to) just north of 23%.

Is this the egg you want to crack?
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Sounds like a person who spent a whole lot of time in class and not a lot of time in the real world.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
And if that money was not spent, do you honestly believe the economy would be better off?
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Out of control spending and promises of higher taxes and higher gas prices didn't help the economy. I don't care what anyone says.
 
cholla said:
Sounds like a person who spent a whole lot of time in class and not a lot of time in the real world.
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Sounds like my post went way over your head. Instead of debating me in an adult like manner, you resort to fallacies (ad hom) to substitute for relevant economic comment.
 
apdst said:
Out of control spending and promises of higher taxes and higher gas prices didn't help the economy. I don't care what anyone says.
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This does not address my comment, you simply stated your opinion yet decided to use the reply button??????........
 
ricksfolly said:
True, but that's because congress has no group or team assigned to making it happen. Investigations and bids take months or even years to put together.

ricksfolly
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How many years would that take? 2 maybe?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Sounds like my post went way over your head. Instead of debating me in an adult like manner, you resort to fallacies (ad hom) to substitute for relevant economic comment.
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Are we debating you or Paul Krugman? Either way you are both wrong. Krugman never saw a dollar that shouldn't be spent and you seem to be on that bandwagon. What you and your ilk don't seem to understand is the basic foundation upon which this country was built, free enterprise and capitalism. Govt. is good at only one thing, creating debt and we all pay for that which makes it a bad thing. The only spending that helped the economy was TARP and most of that has been paid back. The stimulus was a waste of money and only created debt. Krugman says we need to spend more, you seem to believe we need to spend more. Where does the money come from, the printing press? When debt = GDP any country has a serious problem. Print more money and the value of that money goes down thus massive inflation which is coming.

I agree with you, the debt ceiling is going to be raised, HOWEVER, strings have to be attached. Stop the DAMN spending, promote the private sector, promote individual wealth creation. Obama and socialists like Krugman don't understand that basic concept of free enterprise and capitalism. Keep it up and we could become Greece. Then what?
 
Conservative said:
Are we debating you or Paul Krugman?
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Fallacy number 1. Non-sequitor

Either way you are both wrong. Krugman never saw a dollar that shouldn't be spent and you seem to be on that bandwagon. What you and your ilk don't seem to understand is the basic foundation upon which this country was built, free enterprise and capitalism.
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This is fallacy number 2, a weak (very weak) strawman. I have not claimed that the government always needs to run deficits, only during periods of economic contraction. Your hero's Reagan and Bush II followed the same economic policy, they increased government spending during recessions while lowering taxes (as did Obama).

Govt. is good at only one thing, creating debt and we all pay for that which makes it a bad thing.
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I can think of many things the government is good at: providing roads and bridges, national defense, providing police and fire rescue, etc....

The only spending that helped the economy was TARP and most of that has been paid back. The stimulus was a waste of money and only created debt. Krugman says we need to spend more, you seem to believe we need to spend more. Where does the money come from, the printing press? When debt = GDP any country has a serious problem. Print more money and the value of that money goes down thus massive inflation which is coming.
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When consumption and investment fall, so will aggregate income unless government runs a deficit. GDP still contracted by about 3%, even though deficit spending increased by more than $1 trillion. You take the deficit spending away, and total output falls by (at least) $1 trillion.

I agree with you, the debt ceiling is going to be raised, HOWEVER, strings have to be attached. Stop the DAMN spending, promote the private sector, promote individual wealth creation. Obama and socialists like Krugman don't understand that basic concept of free enterprise and capitalism. Keep it up and we could become Greece. Then what?
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The economy is beginning to recover, and once private companies are capable of picking up the slack, the deficit will decrease by virtue of less unemployment benefits, food stamps, and welfare outlays.

For comedic relief, define socialism as you see it.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
And if that money was not spent, do you honestly believe the economy would be better off?
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I believe that the economy would have started back months ago (if not a year) instead of starting with the retaking of the House (and the forced end of the Obama agenda). Remember, I am a real world, old school guy, not a, this number means this, this number means that, student.
 
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