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Thread: Autism-vaccine study was 'fraud,' journal says

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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And what is the alternative to science and logic?
    Interesting that you put logic and science together.

    Modern science is based on positivism. Positivism says that there is no difference between something that doesn't exist and something that exists and hasn't been observed. So modern science says the extent of our universe is only those things which we observe. This seems illogical to me. I won't even go into the extent at which our science is dominated by the elite that decide what 'knowledge' appears in our text books and scientific journals. Remember positivism, there is no man behind the curtain until you observe him.
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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    Interesting that you put logic and science together.

    Modern science is based on positivism. Positivism says that there is no difference between something that doesn't exist and something that exists and hasn't been observed. So modern science says the extent of our universe is only those things which we observe. This seems illogical to me. I won't even go into the extent at which our science is dominated by the elite that decide what 'knowledge' appears in our text books and scientific journals. Remember positivism, there is no man behind the curtain until you observe him.
    All of which circuity means...... zero.
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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    As the father of a child with Autism, and an active member of multiple support/education groups for families with autistic members, I can tell you that the risk was greater than that caused by skipping vaccinations (some people actually just requested single instead of multiple vaccinations). The biggest crime of this flawed study and its wide spread advocacy was the false hope of a cure that seemed to attach to it.

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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    As the father of a child with Autism, and an active member of multiple support/education groups for families with autistic members, I can tell you that the risk was greater than that caused by skipping vaccinations (some people actually just requested single instead of multiple vaccinations). The biggest crime of this flawed study and its wide spread advocacy was the false hope of a cure that seemed to attach to it.
    What risk? There was no risk. Skipping vaccines = dumb.
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    Re: Autism-vaccine study was 'fraud,' journal says

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    link

    For years, anti-vaccine folks have used this as part of their argument against getting children vaccinated, and MANY people believed it. Now, it is shown to be a compelte fraud. Parents who bought into this and whose children subsequently caught these diseases that the vaccines were meant to prevent should look at a lawsuit...
    The anti-vaccine people are certifiable lunatics. They have blood on their hands. Of course, it's not like exposing this fraud is going to change their minds...their opinions are not based on facts or reason in the first place.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-06-11 at 10:19 PM.
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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    Modern science is based on positivism. Positivism says that there is no difference between something that doesn't exist and something that exists and hasn't been observed. So modern science says the extent of our universe is only those things which we observe. This seems illogical to me.
    You're mistaken. The scientific method doesn't speak to something that is unobservable, so in that way the unobservable is similar to something that doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean that "positivism says that there is no difference." Of course there is a difference, one exists and one doesn't. All positivism says is that we should treat all unobserved phenomena as just that-- unobserved-- until it actually has been observed.

    If you can think of a more logical way to deal with unobserved phenomena I am all ears. If you can it will probably earn you a Nobel Prize
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 01-06-11 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh
    Modern science is based on positivism. Positivism says that there is no difference between something that doesn't exist and something that exists and hasn't been observed. So modern science says the extent of our universe is only those things which we observe. This seems illogical to me. I won't even go into the extent at which our science is dominated by the elite that decide what 'knowledge' appears in our text books and scientific journals. Remember positivism, there is no man behind the curtain until you observe him.
    As the above poster said, science is concerned with observable phenomena. If something is not observable, either directly or indirectly, then it cannot be studied and therefore is not within the realm of science. That is the realm of philosophy.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Journal: Study linking vaccine to autism was fraud Read more: http://www.foxnews

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    What risk? There was no risk. Skipping vaccines = dumb.
    Perhaps I was not clear. My point was, not only did this widely cited study (believe me within the community of people with Autism in a family member this study/conclusion was very widely read and hotly debated), convince a certain percentage of people NOT to vaccinate their children (in my case it was not an issue as my son was already older when it came out, and we would not have taken that route), it raised hope for many that by following its conclusions their children would somehow recover.

    "Skipping vaccines = dumb" is very easy to say when you are not the one with a child/dependent with this condition. If you have not personally lived with this challenge you cannot know what it is like, nor how greatly you hold out for a cure/improvement, if even only deep within your heart.

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    Re: Autism-vaccine study was 'fraud,' journal says

    Still doesn't mean that mercury wasnt in some vaccines being distributed.
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    Re: Autism-vaccine study was 'fraud,' journal says

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    there were charges against Wakefield's study very early on here and the Govt tried to make the case for the MMR vaccine but it's not easy to be rational about what you do or do not put into your child's body when they are so helpless. My ex wife and I read the literature at the time and had our two boys vaccinated - but reading the literature still didn't dispell all fear as the needles went in.
    There is inherent risk involved with any medical procedure and receiving a vaccine is a medical procedure.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    What risk? There was no risk.
    Not strictly true. There is a remote chance of a negative reaction occurring that can cause everything from skin irritation to death. It's EXTREMELY rare but it is, technically, still a risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    "Skipping vaccines = dumb" is very easy to say when you are not the one with a child/dependent with this condition. If you have not personally lived with this challenge you cannot know what it is like, nor how greatly you hold out for a cure/improvement, if even only deep within your heart.
    No, as much as it may crack the earth open for me to say this, I'm with Vichio. Unless you have been medically advised by several doctors or other similar professionals, skipping vaccines is a bad move. Your chances of catching the diseases vaccines are meant to prevent are greater than your chances of a negative reaction and there is no known mechanic for vaccinations to create or spur autism.

    And dont pull me "you dont know what it's like" card, I work with adults with special needs on a daily basis, I'm intimately familiar with a wide range of the autism spectrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Still doesn't mean that mercury wasnt in some vaccines being distributed.
    For ****'s sake. There is no elemental mercury in vaccines.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

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