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Thread: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    I think the 14th Amendment is pretty clear in its meaning. And, before the 14th, we had slavery in this country, a permanent class of non-citizen human beings who never knew any other land but this one.

    You think repealing the 14th Amendment just applies to those foreign looking, Spanish speaking people but forget that we are a nation of equal protection under the law. No 14th Amendment applies to you, too.

    With no 14th Amendment your American birth certificate doesn't prove a Goddamn thing anymore — same thing for that Social Security card you're waving around: you may have obtained it under false pretenses back when a 14th Amendment assured us that you were ‘legal’ solely by reference to that American birth certificate. No more.

    If your claim to citizenship in this country is based on your American birth certificate then without the 14th Amendment only your parent's legal immigration status at the time of your birth assures us that you are in fact a citizen. That's not a straw man; that's the law.

    Papers please.
    Don't be such an idiot. There are nations that don't grant citizenship by birth, and they're not Nazis Germany. Jus sanguinis is common and so Lex sanguinis, which *GASP* discriminates on basis of ethnicity! That, and I'm fairly sure this movement stops children of illegal immigrants in the future from having citizenship. Laws are not retroactive.
    Last edited by Vincent; 01-06-11 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    … I'll be deploying to Afghanistan in a few months. …
    Thank you for your service. Stay safe and hurry back.

    Without the protections accorded you under the 14th Amendment, or, in your case, the Dream Act should it pass (and it should), when you get back here your citizenship status may depend on the immigration status of your parents. Were they legal? Can you prove it?

    I know, I know you think it's obvious that you're an American citizen but under the rules you would impose, an American birth certificate ain't enough anymore; you must demonstrate that your parents were here legally, too, and, their parents, etc.

    You might ‘look’ American, ‘sound’ American, and, ‘act’ American but that's simply because you were ‘raised’ American; to be ‘American,’ your parents had better of been here legally and can prove it.
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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Oh, and by the way, scream racism all you want. That doesn't change the FACT that Mexico is WAY more violent than the United States, and by extension, Mexicans. The murder rate in Mexico in 2004 was 13.4 per 100,000. In the USA in the same year it was 5.62. That means the murder rate in Mexico was over DOUBLE our rate. Of course, that varies by city and place, but overall...

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Oh, and by the way, scream racism all you want. That doesn't change the FACT that Mexico is WAY more violent than the United States, and by extension, Mexicans. The murder rate in Mexico in 2004 was 13.4 per 100,000. In the USA in the same year it was 5.62. That means the murder rate in Mexico was over DOUBLE our rate. Of course, that varies by city and place, but overall...
    Ok. So how is that relevant to anything?
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    … Laws are not retroactive.
    So your children are safe because you were here prior to 2011? And, all those brown skinned tykes born in this country prior to 2011 are legal, too, irregardless of their parents immigration status?

    The line starts now?

    Fair enough. Then that American non-citizen underclass, starts now, too: people who were born here, never knew any other country but this one, grew up here, went to school here, perhaps defended this country but can't trace back their heritage to someone who was legally living here prior to 2011. Okay. There you are. That's the consequence. A permanent underclass of human beings who have no other place but here and aren't citizens perhaps never will be. And, their children and their children's children, them, too.

    America doesn't have an underclass. Our ancestors paid dearly in the American Civil War to end the underclass. Let's not start having one now.
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    joke Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    So your children are safe because you were here prior to 2011? And, all those brown skinned tykes born in this country prior to 2011 are legal, too, irregardless of their parents immigration status?

    The line starts now?

    Fair enough. Then that American non-citizen underclass, starts now, too: people who were born here, never knew any other country but this one, grew up here, went to school here, perhaps defended this country but can't trace back their heritage to someone who was legally living here prior to 2011. Okay. There you are. That's the consequence. A permanent underclass of human beings who have no other place but here and aren't citizens perhaps never will be. And, their children and their children's children, them, too.

    America doesn't have an underclass. Our ancestors paid dearly in the American Civil War to end the underclass. Let's not start having one now.
    THANK YOU! This might be the first time someone has conceded my point in any internet debate. And that was the point--such a law talked about in that article would not affect people already born and living here. It would affect people in the future. So a woman going to the hospital to have a kid wouldn't need to produce papers that her parents were citizens, she would merely need to produce proof that she's a citizen. And I'm pretty sure it's not too hard to produce a birth certificate if you were born here, it's entered into databases as well as you getting a paper, if I recall correctly.

    And puh-leaze, don't start getting all weepy. If being a non-citizen is such a bad thing, then non-citizens would stay in their own nations instead of illegally crossing borders and breaking the law. If it's such a bad thing, then hopefully the parents of those to-be non-citizens won't inflict it upon their children.

    Better idea--let's have our immigration laws be a duplicate of Mexico's laws. Then Latinos won't have anything to complain about!

    Mexico's illegals laws tougher than Arizona's - Washington Times

    And lastly, the Civil War wasn't fought "to end a subclass" or free the slaves. The South fought it to preserve State's rights and the North fought it to preserve the size of the nation.

    To quote President Lincoln...
    My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause.
    In other words, Lincoln only made slavery an issue as a tool to help is goal of keeping the nation united.
    Last edited by Vincent; 01-06-11 at 03:05 PM.

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Oh, and by the way, scream racism all you want. That doesn't change the FACT that Mexico is WAY more violent than the United States, and by extension, Mexicans. The murder rate in Mexico in 2004 was 13.4 per 100,000. In the USA in the same year it was 5.62. That means the murder rate in Mexico was over DOUBLE our rate. Of course, that varies by city and place, but overall...
    Not important. And you have pretty poor understanding as to what is going on in Mexico. The reason Mexico is experiencing a murder rate that's double than ours. Is that there is a drug war going on where the gangs and cartels are actually fighting back. That increases lose. Also Mexico is a poor nation. People in poor nations tend to turn to violence to solve their economic woes.

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    One major problem with the repeal of the 14th amendment:

    1. Doing so would create ceaseless generations of people born illegal; two illegal immigrants have a kid, and when that kid becomes an adult they have a kid, who is born illegal, and so forth. That would result people being born criminals without any intent or actions on their own part, and such people would have to live in fear of persecution and deportation for essentially doing nothing wrong.

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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    States can stop granting residence status to these people.
    On what basis? How do you not grant residence to U.S. citizens?
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    Re: State lawmakers taking aim at amendment granting birthright citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Don't be such an idiot. There are nations that don't grant citizenship by birth, and they're not Nazis Germany. Jus sanguinis is common and so Lex sanguinis, which *GASP* discriminates on basis of ethnicity! That, and I'm fairly sure this movement stops children of illegal immigrants in the future from having citizenship. Laws are not retroactive.
    True, many states do NOT grant citizenship by birth, but the U.S. does and it has a Constitutional basis. The U.S. is a nation of laws. There is a legal procedure to change the Constitution. Use it. The states have no standing to say that it will ignore the constitution. One thing I dislike about Republicans on this issue is that on so many others, they insist on following the admendment process to effectuate changes in the Constitution rather than rely on judicial fiat, but here they are willing to go around the Constitutional provisions for changing the document on an issue they believe support...
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