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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then why is it then, that those in support of something as complex as Obamacare, often characterize their opponents as misleading. Can't one hold a differing opinion without being denigrated in such a way?

    j-mac
    Because they often mislead. From death panel nonsense to socialism, they often mislead. Having a different opinion isn't the same as going hog wild with distortions and misrepresentations. There really is a difference.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 01-14-11 at 03:13 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because they often mislead. From death panel nonsense to socialism, they often mislead. Having a different opinion isn't the same as going hog wild with distortions and misrepresentations. There really is a difference.
    Why are you so negative on death panels and socialism since you appear to support both? End of life counseling along with rationing and massive expansion in the size and scope of govt. are death panels and steps towards socialism.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because they often mislead. From death panel nonsense to socialism, they often mislead. Having a different opinion isn't the same as going hog wild with distortions and misrepresentations. There really is a difference.

    You tip your ideological hand here Joe. Is it only those in opposition to Obamacare that mislead? or is it possible that things contained within the 2700 page bill are purposely misleading as well?

    j-mac
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You tip your ideological hand here Joe. Is it only those in opposition to Obamacare that mislead? or is it possible that things contained within the 2700 page bill are purposely misleading as well?

    j-mac
    No, and never said anything of the kind. But when we're having a discussion, and the person I talk to misleads, it's fair to point out they are misleading, no matter who else misleads.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why are you so negative on death panels and socialism since you appear to support both? End of life counseling along with rationing and massive expansion in the size and scope of govt. are death panels and steps towards socialism.
    Now that was just a stupid reply.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, and never said anything of the kind. But when we're having a discussion, and the person I talk to misleads, it's fair to point out they are misleading, no matter who else misleads.

    Ofcourse, and I would expect anyone on either side to do the same, however, if you are going to say that, you have to show how. It doesn't matter if you have 1, 10, 100, or 1000 times before, the claim is anew when you make it, so back it up no? Just because you say someone is misleading, doesn't mean squat, especially when the sourcing for your claim is often a liberal source. That would be like me saying that you are lying, and using AmThinker to back it up. AmThinker is conservative opinion nothing more. Just as I believe that some things you use as back up are liberal echo chamber op/ed journalism.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ofcourse, and I would expect anyone on either side to do the same, however, if you are going to say that, you have to show how. It doesn't matter if you have 1, 10, 100, or 1000 times before, the claim is anew when you make it, so back it up no? Just because you say someone is misleading, doesn't mean squat, especially when the sourcing for your claim is often a liberal source. That would be like me saying that you are lying, and using AmThinker to back it up. AmThinker is conservative opinion nothing more. Just as I believe that some things you use as back up are liberal echo chamber op/ed journalism.


    j-mac
    Here is a pretty good study on MA and what the results are, results that show costs rising as are the MA deficits. Imagine that with Obamacare on a national scale.

    Three Lessons from Massachusetts | Publications | National Center for Policy Analysis | NCPA

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ofcourse, and I would expect anyone on either side to do the same, however, if you are going to say that, you have to show how. It doesn't matter if you have 1, 10, 100, or 1000 times before, the claim is anew when you make it, so back it up no? Just because you say someone is misleading, doesn't mean squat, especially when the sourcing for your claim is often a liberal source. That would be like me saying that you are lying, and using AmThinker to back it up. AmThinker is conservative opinion nothing more. Just as I believe that some things you use as back up are liberal echo chamber op/ed journalism.


    j-mac
    Well, I think the number of times to the same person should matter. Absolutely. And it has been covered ad nausium. Anyone who really thinks there were proposed death panels is an idiot. But most are really just being purposefully misleading. And there is really nothing that anyone should have to link to show this. It's dishonest discourse from the start. No insurance company pays for every concieveable procedure, regardless of cost or effectiveness, and they don't have death panels either. It's about honesty and not differing opinions.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Here is a pretty good study on MA and what the results are, results that show costs rising as are the MA deficits. Imagine that with Obamacare on a national scale.

    Three Lessons from Massachusetts | Publications | National Center for Policy Analysis | NCPA
    Do you believe this source is nonpartisan, and not influenced by political ideaology? Just asking.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    let me counter with:

    BOSTON—The percentage of residents enrolled in a health care plan continues to increase in Massachusetts, the only state to achieve near-universal health insurance coverage, according to a report.

    As of June, 98.1% of state residents had coverage compared with 97.3% in 2009, according to a report released Monday by the Massachusetts Division of Health Care Finance and Policy.

    (Snip)

    “Massachusetts' achievements in health care reform have been nothing short of extraordinary,” Massachusetts Secretary of Health and Human Services Dr. JudyAnn Bigby said in a statement. “With employers, government and individuals all sharing the responsibility of reform, we continue to have the highest insurance rate in the nation,” she added.

    Massachusetts' insured rate hits 98.1%: Analysis | Business Insurance


    Of 2135 practicing Massachusetts physicians who responded to the poll, 70% said they support the Massachusetts Health Care Reform Law, whereas 13% oppose it (see Table 1). The levels of support among primary care doctors and among specialists were similar. When asked about the law’s future, 75% indicated that they want the law to remain in place — 46% with some changes, and 29% as is. Seven percent favored repealing the legislation. Physicians who mentioned that some changes are needed were asked in an open-ended question what change they would most like to see. They most frequently mentioned issues related to expanding coverage (34%) and addressing the costs of the program (23%). Approximately three quarters of Massachusetts physicians (79%) reported being very or somewhat satisfied with their medical practice. Fifty percent reported that things at their practice had gotten worse over the past 3 years, and 23% said things had gotten better. Few said that the Massachusetts health care reform law was a major reason for positive changes (13%) or negative ones (11%).

    Physicians’ Views of the Massachusetts Health Care Reform Law

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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