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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't recall seeing them. So, I guess by not seeing them I ignored them. But if you actually read what I write, you would see that I don't claim any system is perfect, so I would expect all of them to have problems. So do we. And I have spoken to Europe. Like the US, much of the world, including Europe, are having struggles, but to suggest that this is because of health care would be to lie, a bold faced lie. You can't divorce all the other factors from the total, and all of us are experiencing them. But, with these problems, and the fact that we spend more on health care, exactly why would you prefer spending more than less?
    Read Post 490 and check out the links. You want more links?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, and still you don't understand incentive and human behavior, even your own. It is beyond your ability to even understand what you do when you get to keep more of what you earn and how that affects the economy. Until consumers spend more 16 million people will remain unemployed or not looking for jobs. Raising taxes won't help create consumer spending.
    Yes, you're response is always to say your opponent is stupid or doesn't understand, I got that. But somehow, we've manged to grow and achieve even with higher tax rates. Not sure how you explain that to yourself, but it is historical fact.

    And yes, consumers need to spend more. Which has very little to do with what has been proposed in restoring the pre-Bush tax cut rates to those above $250,000. That group is not likely to change their spending habits either way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, you're response is always to say your opponent is stupid or doesn't understand, I got that. But somehow, we've manged to grow and achieve even with higher tax rates. Not sure how you explain that to yourself, but it is historical fact.

    And yes, consumers need to spend more. Which has very little to do with what has been proposed in restoring the pre-Bush tax cut rates to those above $250,000. That group is not likely to change their spending habits either way.
    LOL, yep, you want people to spend more with higher taxes thus less take home pay? That is liberal logic. Do you realize that taxes coming out of your paycheck affect how much spendable income you have?

    Your continued focus on previous tax rates ignore actual taxes collected and the deductions available at those rates. How convenient!

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Read Post 490 and check out the links. You want more links?
    Nice chocie of sources. Let me provide a few others:

    Sweden:

    Sweden's government run healthcare system is constantly at the top of international rankings. This could be because of their fast and efficient treatment of patients.

    Sweden's Healthcare System - Best Health Care Countries

    Sweden tops the list of 94 countries in the State of the World's Mothers index examining 10 factors related to women's and children's health, education and political status.

    Sweden ranks 1st, U.S. 11th on 'Mother's Index' - CNN


    BBC NEWS | Health | How the NHS could learn from Sweden

    These are after your paper says everything went to ****? Go figure.

    Canada:

    Yes, they protest cuts. So? We protest things here to. Our insurance companies cut our ebenfits as well. What exactly do you think you're saying?



    The United States spends far more per capita on health care than any comparable country. In fact, the gap is so enormous that a recent University of California, San Francisco, study estimates that the United States would save over $161 billion every year in paperwork alone if it switched to a singlepayer system like Canada's.3 These billions of dollars are not abstract amounts deducted from government budgets; they come directly out of the pockets of people who are sick.

    (snip)

    The solid statistics amassed since the 1970s point to only one conclusion: like it or not, believe it makes sense or not, publicly funded, universally available health care is simply the most powerful contributing factor to the overall health of the people who live in any country. And in the United States, we have got the bodies to prove it.

    Canadian Single-Payer Health Care Program: Is it Better than US Health Care?


    Remember, Canada ranked 30th by WHO. The US 37th. France was number one.

    And your vermont article is factually inaccurate. A single payer system does not involve itself in who provdes care, hire doctors, run hospitals. They function like a single insurance company for all. And here, the wealthy would be free to not only pay for more, but buy more and separate insurance. Your editorial simply isn't quite accurate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, yep, you want people to spend more with higher taxes thus less take home pay? That is liberal logic. Do you realize that taxes coming out of your paycheck affect how much spendable income you have?

    Your continued focus on previous tax rates ignore actual taxes collected and the deductions available at those rates. How convenient!
    Above the $250,000 dollar level, they would not likely even notice the difference much, and there is no evidence suggesting they would change their spending and saving habits at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nice chocie of sources. Let me provide a few others:

    Sweden:

    Sweden's government run healthcare system is constantly at the top of international rankings. This could be because of their fast and efficient treatment of patients.

    Sweden's Healthcare System - Best Health Care Countries

    Sweden tops the list of 94 countries in the State of the World's Mothers index examining 10 factors related to women's and children's health, education and political status.

    Sweden ranks 1st, U.S. 11th on 'Mother's Index' - CNN


    BBC NEWS | Health | How the NHS could learn from Sweden

    These are after your paper says everything went to ****? Go figure.

    Canada:

    Yes, they protest cuts. So? We protest things here to. Our insurance companies cut our ebenfits as well. What exactly do you think you're saying?



    The United States spends far more per capita on health care than any comparable country. In fact, the gap is so enormous that a recent University of California, San Francisco, study estimates that the United States would save over $161 billion every year in paperwork alone if it switched to a singlepayer system like Canada's.3 These billions of dollars are not abstract amounts deducted from government budgets; they come directly out of the pockets of people who are sick.

    (snip)

    The solid statistics amassed since the 1970s point to only one conclusion: like it or not, believe it makes sense or not, publicly funded, universally available health care is simply the most powerful contributing factor to the overall health of the people who live in any country. And in the United States, we have got the bodies to prove it.

    Canadian Single-Payer Health Care Program: Is it Better than US Health Care?


    Remember, Canada ranked 30th by WHO. The US 37th. France was number one.

    And your vermont article is factually inaccurate. A single payer system does not involve itself in who provdes care, hire doctors, run hospitals. They function like a single insurance company for all. And here, the wealthy would be free to not only pay for more, but buy more and separate insurance. Your editorial simply isn't quite accurate.
    Isn't it wonderful that all that great healthcare in Europe and Canada is costing more than expected and causing problems within the country. Your rankings are irrelevant, so which is it today, costs or access. You still have so much faith in the Federal Govt. doing what they have never done and what apparently you cannot get done in your state. What will contribute to the health of this nation is personal responsibility, proper eating habits, less alcohol consumption, less drug usage. You want to contribute to those that abuse their bodies do so through your local charities not through forced redistribution by the Federal Govt.

    It looks to me like you cannot convince your local state to do what you want the Federal Govt. to do and ignore anything that contradicts your point of view. Again, healthcare is a personal responsibility because you control what you do to your body. You have the ability to help people in your own state but choose not to instead wanting to force the U.S. taxpayer to fund your own personal choice problems. Seems to me you want the Europe system to be implemented here even with the European problems.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Above the $250,000 dollar level, they would not likely even notice the difference much, and there is no evidence suggesting they would change their spending and saving habits at all.
    Neither would the Federal Govt. notice the difference. How much would that generate in revenue? We have a 14.5 trillion debt and this will be the third year of over trillion dollar deficits. how much will taxing the rich impact that deficit?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    [QUOTE=zimmer;1059217517]
    You also didn't have the government creating law to force banks to loan money for houses to people that could not afford to pay back said loans. ACORN activists and their agenda behind the devastating welfare program... including Barack Hussein Obama.

    As noted in the vid below... it was a race-centric, social justice program forced on banks, with devastating results. Another illustration of the destructive nature of the socialists schemes.

    In Kanuckistan isn't it the law you MUST put up 10% of the house price, or a specific percentage first? I'm not saying this should be law... but illustrates the Kanuckistani's are discriminating about who they loan money for housing. Rightly so... as the banks are not social programs.

    Cuomo explaining how they were going to force banks as an Affirmative Action program. An affirmative action that undermined the economic pillars of the country. And now the idiot is the Gov. of NY?! Phew...


    .
    Blaming the CRA is idiotic,

    Texas avoided the housing bubble for the same reason Canada did, strict banking regulations regarding mortgages. Texas faced the exact same rules from the CRA, but institution in Texas had to follow strict Texas regulations regarding mortgages (limiting cash outs and other aspects)

    The banks wanted to lend money out to every tom dick and harry, and where they could they did, where they couldnt they didnt, and the results are clear

    As for Canada

    5% is allowed for downpayments, it used to be 10%. And for about 3 years zero down was allowed for insured mortgages. If you have less then 25% down you pay extra in insurance every month (as most institutions wont issue a mortgage without insurance for home with less then 25% equity. Most Can mortgages are renewed between 3-7 years and can have interest rates vary quite dramatically in that time frame. Most mortgages used to be paid off in 21-25 years, now the time frame has been extended to 30.

    One more primary factor is that we do not have the income tax deduction for mortgage interest
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Your continued focus on previous tax rates ignore actual taxes collected and the deductions available at those rates. How convenient!
    No, I haven't. But regardless of those things, we did just find at the other rate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Neither would the Federal Govt. notice the difference. How much would that generate in revenue? We have a 14.5 trillion debt and this will be the third year of over trillion dollar deficits. how much will taxing the rich impact that deficit?
    Actually, the numbers have been presented to you before. It would help the deficit. It actually would.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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