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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Here is a pretty good analysis of Canada vs. the U.S. I believe economic policies in Canada far exceeded U.S. economic policy and in particular the stimulus plans passed in both countries. Note the amount in Canada vs. the U.S. Obama's focus was on Democrat constituent groups i.e. unions with our stimulus plan and Canada focused on actually stimulating the economy. We have a private sector economy that didn't respond well to Obama's stimulus whereas Canada did a better job.

    Canada's bright economic prospects
    It does appear that Canada's stimulus was a lot more effective, and only half as big on a per capita basis, even discounting the 700 Billion spent on TARP before Obama was elected. I wonder how many Goldman Sachs and General Motors sized industries they had to bail out?

    Much of our stimulus was in the form of tax cuts. I'm not sure how much of Canada's stimulus was the same.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It does appear that Canada's stimulus was a lot more effective, and only half as big on a per capita basis, even discounting the 700 Billion spent on TARP before Obama was elected. I wonder how many Goldman Sachs and General Motors sized industries they had to bail out?

    Much of our stimulus was in the form of tax cuts. I'm not sure how much of Canada's stimulus was the same.
    GM we did

    Our banks were given some "assistance" but nothing compared to the US. Generally because we have not had a massive level of foreclosures like the US

    Last but not least

    Canada benifitied greatly by the stimulus packages in the US in helping to maintain a certain level of demand, and mostly Canada has been helped by the strong growth in China. China's demand for raw materials has kept prices for them high, allowing for the resource sector to do very well in Canada (while the manufacturing sector slowly dies).

    Everyone should notice that countries that are heavily involved in the resource sectors has done relatively well during this economic crisis and those that do export other goods to China (Korea for instance). If China collapsed, Canada would be in the toilet (it used to be if the US collapsed Canada would be in the toilet)


    One reason the US tanked is that too many people in the US were and are part of the financial sector. It is not a wealth creator but a cost centre for any economy.
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 01-14-11 at 03:57 AM.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    GM we did

    Our banks were given some "assistance" but nothing compared to the US. Generally because we have not had a massive level of foreclosures like the US
    You also didn't have the government creating law to force banks to loan money for houses to people that could not afford to pay back said loans. ACORN activists and their agenda behind the devastating welfare program... including Barack Hussein Obama.

    As noted in the vid below... it was a race-centric, social justice program forced on banks, with devastating results. Another illustration of the destructive nature of the socialists schemes.

    In Kanuckistan isn't it the law you MUST put up 10% of the house price, or a specific percentage first? I'm not saying this should be law... but illustrates the Kanuckistani's are discriminating about who they loan money for housing. Rightly so... as the banks are not social programs.

    Cuomo explaining how they were going to force banks as an Affirmative Action program. An affirmative action that undermined the economic pillars of the country. And now the idiot is the Gov. of NY?! Phew...


    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-14-11 at 04:51 AM.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It does appear that Canada's stimulus was a lot more effective, and only half as big on a per capita basis, even discounting the 700 Billion spent on TARP before Obama was elected. I wonder how many Goldman Sachs and General Motors sized industries they had to bail out?

    Much of our stimulus was in the form of tax cuts. I'm not sure how much of Canada's stimulus was the same.
    There is quite a bit of difference between TARP and the Stimulus plan. TARP was 700 billion of which Bush spent 350 billion and left 350 billion to Obama. Obama still hasn't spent it all and most of TARP has been paid back.

    The Stimulus was a different story. It was designed for "shovel ready" job which of course we now learn didn't exist so most of it went to bailout Democrat contituent groups. You claim most of it went to tax cuts so I ask you to compare the so called Obama tax cuts to real tax cuts under Bush. When you give a rebate you don't get the real advantage that you get with rate cuts. Once the rebate check is spent it is gone. Those still working here are benefiting from the Bush tax cuts.

    Over all the stimulus program was a true waste of taxpayer dollars as the results show.

    Obama Tax cuts

    Total: $288 billion

    Tax cuts for individuals
    Total: $237 billion
    • $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
    • $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
    • $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
    • $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
    • $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
    • $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
    • $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
    • $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
    • $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

    Bush Tax cuts

    Between 2001 and 2003, the Bush administration instituted a federal tax cut for all taxpayers. Among other changes, the lowest income tax rate was lowered from 15% to 10%, the 27% rate went to 25%, the 30% rate went to 28%, the 35% rate went to 33%, and the top marginal tax rate went from 39.6% to 35%.[3] In addition, the child tax credit went from $500 to $1000, and the "marriage penalty" was reduced. Since the cuts were implemented as part of the annual congressional budget resolution, which protected the bill from filibusters, numerous amendments, and more than 20 hours of debate, it had to include a sunset clause. Unless congress passes legislation making the tax cuts permanent, they will expire in 2011.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Ok....Here's what I want to know. We all know this game, we are in it every day in real life. As I sit down and look at the family budget we have a certain number in net, spendable income coming into the house. We then look at what the home needs, and what we need as a family for basic survival, ie; shelter, electric, food, gas. Then we look at the intermediate expenses, phone, cable, clothing. Then we have the luxury expenses, upgrades to phone (cells), cable (internet, DVR, etc.), vacations, etc.

    Now, if my income as a household won't sustain the luxuries, then we don't put them on the credit card, and max that out, we cut. How is this a hard equation?

    Now Boo, and others look at our systems like health care, which I will agree to an extent needs some real reorganization, especially in the area of tort. But, take for a minute Congresswoman Giffords. It is amazing what our system did to not only save her life, but now looks like she will make a full recovery. Think about that, A FULL RECOVERY after a bullet to the head! Amazing. Now contrast that with that actress that was in a bad accident in Canada not too far back that died. Could they have saved Giffords?

    Part of the reason that we are in the position we are in is because we have a culture of instant gratification. Something our parents didn't have being raised around people from the Depression that knew what real austerity was. We don't.

    We have to do the things that are really going to hurt. It was built to that point over a long period of time, and all we are doing now is put it off, making it worse when there is no choice anymore. Rip it off in one pull like a band aid.

    So my question is to liberals that go on endlessly in what we need, and what we don't, and how conservatives must see it their way in order to even have a discussion, (which is BS but I digress),

    What Cuts specifically are you talking about?

    What taxes would have to be raised, and how much?

    What are your thoughts on a Balanced Budget Amendment?

    And what are your models to show that your proposals have actually worked and are sound?


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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    it was a race-centric, social justice program forced on banks, with devastating results. Another illustration of the destructive nature of the socialists schemes.
    wasn't exactly forced on banks, since they were allowed to wrap up the loans in cdo's sell them off to gse's and pensions, then make money again by betting against them. not excusing the idea of forcing bad loans on people, but the banks aren't quites as innocent as you'd have us think.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    wasn't exactly forced on banks, since they were allowed to wrap up the loans in cdo's sell them off to gse's and pensions, then make money again by betting against them. not excusing the idea of forcing bad loans on people, but the banks aren't quites as innocent as you'd have us think.
    Are you in business Zyroh?


    j-mac
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are you in business Zyroh?


    j-mac
    This is rather frustrating as once again the individual has no responsibility in this problem. I have owned a number of homes in my lifetime and never did I have a lending institution hold a gun to my head and force me to sign paperwork that had an escalating interest rate. Personal responsibility doesn't seem to exist in the liberal world these days. Banks and lending institutions supported by our elected officials put together a sub prime lending program and individuals that couldn't afford the payments took advantage of the program. Banks then took the hit and requested the bailout. On one hand Barney Frank and his "crew" put pressure on the banks to make these loans but on the other banks made the loans and should have suffered the consequences for their mistake.

    I did not support TARP but understood it. IMO the banks should have been allowed to fail and if they had we wouldn't be in this mess today.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Last November, as the economic recovery appeared to falter, the Fed said it would buy a new round of $600 billion in Treasury securities through June of this year. That's on top of the $1.7 trillion in Treasuries and mortgage-backed securities it had purchased in response to the financial crisis.

    Still, the pitfalls of the Fed's approach are almost as numerous as the lending facilities it undertook to stem the crisis. Perhaps most daunting, the Fed's purchases of Treasury debt and mortgage-backed securities have effectively turned it into a mammoth investor -- a thoroughly undiversified one.
    Could the U.S. central bank go broke? | Reuters

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    That is way above the typical liberal's head to comprehend. Their live for today attitude will be the death of this economy and nation.

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