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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Then put up some numbers to refute what Boo has posted
    Boo put out numbers it is up to him to identify what went into those numbers. Whether or not we pay more really is irrelevant without the costs that go into those numbers. Do other countries have the malpractice suits, illegal alien thus high ER usage, govt. regulations, and R&D costs that we have and in that quantity?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That would be nice.
    What would be nice is you providing the data that generated the numbers you posted and really attacked the cost issue, not the access issue.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What would be nice is you providing the data that generated the numbers you posted and really attacked the cost issue, not the access issue.
    I'm sure if you look at the reports linked, you can find methodology. But as I have provided links showing more than one place reaching the same conclusion, and no one disputing the numbers, I believe you're just grasping at straws.

    Dispute or accept.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sure if you look at the reports linked, you can find methodology. But as I have provided links showing more than one place reaching the same conclusion, and no one disputing the numbers, I believe you're just grasping at straws.

    Dispute or accept.
    Ok, I accept the numbers, now what? does that make them too high because they are higher than other countries? Do other countries have high govt. regulations, high illegal use of ER's, high malpractice suits, high R&D expenses? Do the people in other countries make what Americans make? Do they have the profit incentive there that we have in this country? Do they have the same tax structure that we have?

    You seem to want to pick out a number and use that number to support your point of view as you ignore the costs in those numbers and the alternative being offered

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ok, I accept the numbers, now what? does that make them too high because they are higher than other countries? Do other countries have high govt. regulations, high illegal use of ER's, high malpractice suits, high R&D expenses? Do the people in other countries make what Americans make? Do they have the profit incentive there that we have in this country? Do they have the same tax structure that we have?

    You seem to want to pick out a number and use that number to support your point of view as you ignore the costs in those numbers and the alternative being offered
    Doesn't matter. Understand the argument. We spend more, so you need another argument other than cost. So, now that you accept that we spend more, we can't object to their systems because they cost too much.

    What's next on your list?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Doesn't matter. Understand the argument. We spend more, so you need another argument other than cost. So, now that you accept that we spend more, we can't object to their systems because they cost too much.

    What's next on your list?
    No, since you are making the issue cost what does Obamacare do to lower costs? It transfers costs to the states! It assumes that Medicare will be cut? it assumes that adding 40 million more will lower costs? It ignores malpractice suits, govt. regulations, illegal ER use, and what it takes to get new drugs and procedures to market in this country. That should be on your list but no where have I seen any discussion of those costs, only access. MA gave all citizens access, did their costs go down?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, since you are making the issue cost what does Obamacare do to lower costs? It transfers costs to the states! It assumes that Medicare will be cut? it assumes that adding 40 million more will lower costs? It ignores malpractice suits, govt. regulations, illegal ER use, and what it takes to get new drugs and procedures to market in this country. That should be on your list but no where have I seen any discussion of those costs, only access. MA gave all citizens access, did their costs go down?
    You're not getting what the argument is. it is about the current health care reform. You stated we couldn't conisder the systems other countries use because they cost more, you entered into the discussion with CP, and backed him that they are too expensive. We both now agree that ours costs more. So, that objection you and CP presented was valid.

    Now, you want to change the subject. OK, make the change. But lets begin with, as I have told you, cost is only part of the equation. In this country some people have excellent health care. others have adequate health care, and still others have poor healthcare. Access in this coutnry is a problem, as evidenced by the big tent efforts, usually seen in third world countries, that are now seen in this country. There are numbers of people not getting adequate health care, and our system is PART of the problem (bold words so you might not miss them).

    States have tackled tort reform, which hasn't effected cost all that much. Illegals, while a problem, doesn't mean we ignore other larger problems, even if they are not currently fixed. No oen is arguing that we don't address them. And the government actually already contributes heavily to new drug development. They may well do more than the private sector does. you migth investigate teaching hospitals and the government funding that goes into new drugs and research.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're not getting what the argument is. it is about the current health care reform. You stated we couldn't conisder the systems other countries use because they cost more, you entered into the discussion with CP, and backed him that they are too expensive. We both now agree that ours costs more. So, that objection you and CP presented was valid.

    Now, you want to change the subject. OK, make the change. But lets begin with, as I have told you, cost is only part of the equation. In this country some people have excellent health care. others have adequate health care, and still others have poor healthcare. Access in this coutnry is a problem, as evidenced by the big tent efforts, usually seen in third world countries, that are now seen in this country. There are numbers of people not getting adequate health care, and our system is PART of the problem (bold words so you might not miss them).

    States have tackled tort reform, which hasn't effected cost all that much. Illegals, while a problem, doesn't mean we ignore other larger problems, even if they are not currently fixed. No oen is arguing that we don't address them. And the government actually already contributes heavily to new drug development. They may well do more than the private sector does. you migth investigate teaching hospitals and the government funding that goes into new drugs and research.
    The topic of this thread is debt limit fight could be catastrophic and has emerged into a healthcare debate and I agree that Obamacare affects the debt and thus the limit. I have shown you the cost of the MA program and how ER usage is up. One of the issues liberals claim is that ER usage thus costs would come down and that hasn't happened in MA so how can it happen in this country.

    I have no problem with healthcare reform but you cannot reform healthcare until all costs are indentified and addressed. You have focuses almost purely on access and there isn't an honest person alive who believes that adding 40 million more to the healthcare roles will make healthcare costs less. You have totally ignored the tough question as to how many actually require govt. healthcare help. I have no problem with open, honest discussion regarding healthcare costs and access but this legislation does nothing to lower costs at all and does nothing to increase access.

    You claim that tort reform, illegals are a problem but we have larger problems. What would those be? How about the millions that are uninsured because they failed to sign up? How about the millions that stream accross our borders and contribute nothing to the Federal tax revenue? What are those bigger problems?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Boo put out numbers it is up to him to identify what went into those numbers. Whether or not we pay more really is irrelevant without the costs that go into those numbers. Do other countries have the malpractice suits, illegal alien thus high ER usage, govt. regulations, and R&D costs that we have and in that quantity?
    I don't know, but we'd better find out pretty soon. The US spends significantly more than any other nation, whether you calculate it as a percentage of GDP or per capita. If we don't control costs, they're going to bankrupt us.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I don't know, but we'd better find out pretty soon. The US spends significantly more than any other nation, whether you calculate it as a percentage of GDP or per capita. If we don't control costs, they're going to bankrupt us.
    Most of the healthcare expenses in this country are paid for by private citizens as 85% of the people are covered. FICA taxes fund Medicaid, Medicare, and SS so comparing what other countries pay is comparing what the private sector pays to what the public sector pays and that isnt a valid comparison. Who are rising costs bankrupting?

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