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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They are funded in all states, one way or another. Keep that in mind. Those who pay always pay for those who don't. One way or another. But, if you mandate that those who can affrd insurance have insurance, those people pay and not the tax payer. And if you monitor, by paying for those who can't pay, the costs of those who can't pay, you are likley to pay less than just letting the hospital run up the price unmonitored, never knowing if you're paying what it cost them, or more.
    The states have the right to do that, the Federal Govt. doesn't. The provision of Obamacare that requires the insurance mandate will be ruled Unconstitutional IMO and that kills the program.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The states have the right to do that, the Federal Govt. doesn't. The provision of Obamacare that requires the insurance mandate will be ruled Unconstitutional IMO and that kills the program.
    If it is ruled unconstitutional, and it just might be, that would eventually kill the program. Premiums will begin to increase even faster than they have been in the past few years, and the average person won't be able to afford them. Already, employers are paying from 8 to 12 grand a year for premiums. How much higher can they go before something is done that will actually control costs?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If it is ruled unconstitutional, and it just might be, that would eventually kill the program. Premiums will begin to increase even faster than they have been in the past few years, and the average person won't be able to afford them. Already, employers are paying from 8 to 12 grand a year for premiums. How much higher can they go before something is done that will actually control costs?
    What isn't being done is an analysis of what makes up those costs because in the last report I saw insurance companies are at the bottom in terms of profit margins. Until costs are analysized and the only focus is on premium costs nothing good is going to come out of this.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The states have the right to do that, the Federal Govt. doesn't. The provision of Obamacare that requires the insurance mandate will be ruled Unconstitutional IMO and that kills the program.
    The courts will settle that, so we don't have to debate that too much. But, you're not really addressing what I said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The courts will settle that, so we don't have to debate that too much. But, you're not really addressing what I said.
    After months of exchanges on this you know where I stand and I know where you stand. Nothing is going to change your mind or mine. I have history and actual govt. data on my side. You have typical liberal projections on yours. I will stick to my own opinions on the subject which include Healthcare being a personal responsibility that is better addressed at the state and local level.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in the Lopez case, the Clinton administration made the argument that every single possible action that Congress could ever take that wasn't explicitly forbidden it in the Constitution was permissible under the Commerce Clause. that's hardly irrelevant.
    First - they lost. So if that was their position, it is now irrelevant.
    Second, do you have record of that position argued before the Court? I cannot find it. Here is what I did find in the summary on Wikipedia

    The Government's principal argument was that the possession of a firearm in an educational environment would most likely lead to a violent crime, which in turn would affect the general economic condition in two ways. First, because violent crime causes harm and creates expense, it raises insurance costs, which are spread throughout the economy; and second, by limiting the willingness to travel in the area perceived to be unsafe. The Government also argued that the presence of firearms within a school would be seen as dangerous, resulting in students' being scared and disturbed; this would, in turn, inhibit learning; and this, in turn, would lead to a weaker national economy since education is clearly a crucial element of the nation's financial health.
    The Court, however, found these arguments to create a dangerous slippery slope: what would prevent the federal government from then regulating any activity that might lead to violent crime, regardless of its connection to interstate commerce, because it imposed social costs? What would prevent Congress from regulating any activity that might bear on a person's economic productivity?[10]
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    After months of exchanges on this you know where I stand and I know where you stand. Nothing is going to change your mind or mine. I have history and actual govt. data on my side. You have typical liberal projections on yours. I will stick to my own opinions on the subject which include Healthcare being a personal responsibility that is better addressed at the state and local level.
    That's just it, you don't have that on your side. You take information and try to make it say something it doesn't. We've been through that before as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's just it, you don't have that on your side. You take information and try to make it say something it doesn't. We've been through that before as well.
    I have all the information I need, history of the Federal Govt. on social spending, healthcare being a personal responsibility, the Founders vision of this country, the Constitution which prevents the govt. from forcing any citizen to buy anything, the results of the MA program.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have all the information I need, history of the Federal Govt. on social spending, healthcare being a personal responsibility, the Founders vision of this country, the Constitution which prevents the govt. from forcing any citizen to buy anything, the results of the MA program.
    That you need? Maybe. But that doesn't mean the information you have is being accurately assessed or understood by you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That you need? Maybe. But that doesn't mean the information you have is being accurately assessed or understood by you.
    Right, in your world actual results don't matter because opinion trumps data and history.

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