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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because this is America and we place a higher value on our freedom. That mentality is the reason this country even exists. If Americans wanted to keep doing things like other countries, we would have all stayed in those countries and never created the greatest nation on earth.
    Aha! Now I see. We value the freedom to continue to have the most inefficient medical care system on Earth, and be tied to a job not because we need it to pay the bills, necessarily, nor because we find the work satisfying and fulfilling, but because we can't get health insurance any other way. We have the liberty to spend more, and get less. We're unique! That's what makes us the greatest nation on Earth.

    Now I get it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Aha! Now I see. We value the freedom to continue to have the most inefficient medical care system on Earth, and be tied to a job not because we need it to pay the bills, necessarily, nor because we find the work satisfying and fulfilling, but because we can't get health insurance any other way. We have the liberty to spend more, and get less. We're unique! That's what makes us the greatest nation on Earth.

    Now I get it.
    So, the solution, is for government to pass legislation that caused insurance rates to go even higher and then force people to buy health insurance?

    Yeah! I'm pumped!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, the solution, is for government to pass legislation that caused insurance rates to go even higher and then force people to buy health insurance?

    Yeah! I'm pumped!
    That's the solution that the government came up with. No "public option", no, that's "socialized medicine", and therefore unAmerican. The truth of the matter is that health insurance costs have been going up for years, sometimes as much as 30% in a single year, and that "Obamacare" isn't going to stop the runaway increases. We stilll have the most inefficient system of any nation, even after reform. We have fewer people who can't afford medical care, but still have a long way to go to fix the system.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    They have whatever powers are granted to them by the US Constitution and clarified through rulings by the US Supreme Court. The opinion "of many on the left" or their counterparts, is irrelevant.
    in the Lopez case, the Clinton administration made the argument that every single possible action that Congress could ever take that wasn't explicitly forbidden it in the Constitution was permissible under the Commerce Clause. that's hardly irrelevant.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Aha! Now I see. We value the freedom to continue to have the most inefficient medical care system on Earth, and be tied to a job not because we need it to pay the bills, necessarily, nor because we find the work satisfying and fulfilling, but because we can't get health insurance any other way. We have the liberty to spend more, and get less. We're unique! That's what makes us the greatest nation on Earth.

    Now I get it.
    Apparently no you don't get it, you buy what you are told and ignore facts when presented. Healthcare is a personal responsibility not a Federal Responsibility. If anything the states and local communities should address the problem. No Libertarian would ever support govt. involvement in a personal responsibility item. Forcing Americans to buy anything is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the solution that the government came up with. No "public option", no, that's "socialized medicine", and therefore unAmerican. The truth of the matter is that health insurance costs have been going up for years, sometimes as much as 30% in a single year, and that "Obamacare" isn't going to stop the runaway increases. We stilll have the most inefficient system of any nation, even after reform. We have fewer people who can't afford medical care, but still have a long way to go to fix the system.
    That's because in health care there is the 'got you' tax... as in when you need health care, you need it... and when you go to a hospital they 'got you' and whatever the price is they know you are going to pay.

    The only problems come if the 'got you' rates start getting so expensive that it becomes preferable to travel out of country for treatment.



    As for the OP : Of course there is a fight to increase the debt ceiling... gotta keep the status quo until it absolutely collapses under the weight of it's own corruption.

    It's also beneficial to keep the person in power pushing to maintain this status quo, so that WHEN a Rand Paul comes in and forces a level fiscal responsibility (some 10-20 years too late mind you)... THEN, if Obama succeeds in this fight and gets the ceiling raised it buys time, if Obama fails then it's not Obama's fault, it is 'Rand Pauls' fault and the tea parties...

    So brace yourself if you're in the tea party, if Rand is successful on your behalfs, well, you get to take the blame for the economic trouble.
    Last edited by BmanMcfly; 01-08-11 at 02:28 PM.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    senator barack hussein obama in 2006 on why he voted NO to raise the debt ceiling (how many raises ago was that, even i've lost count):

    raising the debt ceiling, drawled the erudite chicagoan with his outstanding posture and self composure, is "a sign of failed leadership"

    "americans deserve better"

    THIS WEEK, outgoing gibbs' attempt to square the contradiction: obama voted NO way back then, sputtered the spokeseman, because HE KNEW IT WOULD PASS WITHOUT HIM

    Report rips IRS 'torment' of taxpayers - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

    LOL!

    obama's vote, it appears, aint worth much

    if dr frist had really needed him, gibbs implies, barry woulda been there

    pathetic

    raising the debt ceiling, a "sign of failed leadership:" barack hussein obama, march 16, 2006

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the solution that the government came up with. No "public option", no, that's "socialized medicine", and therefore unAmerican. The truth of the matter is that health insurance costs have been going up for years, sometimes as much as 30% in a single year, and that "Obamacare" isn't going to stop the runaway increases. We stilll have the most inefficient system of any nation, even after reform. We have fewer people who can't afford medical care, but still have a long way to go to fix the system.
    If health insurance costs have been going up for years how are they going to be less expensive by adding many millions of more people into the system? Does anyone seriously beieve that health care costs will go down under government supervision?

    Real competition should have been allowed between the health insurers. That's the only way to keep proces under control.

    Other countries who have health insurance always had to give up something in order to pay for it. In the west that something was always the military, and with the USA taking over their protection for them, that was never a serious problem. But now the military will decline in the United States just as it has elsewhere. This might not be such a bad thing if other countries can take up the slack, but they seem to be stretched to the limit by their unrealistic spending also.

    And of course the health system will become ever more politicized, as it is elsewhere, and the American character will change dramatically. You'll all be California.

    There are more NHS staff in the UK than there is in the US military, which should give everyone an idea how Topsy will grow.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    OK, so we have some Canadians, who of course know more about the Canadian health care system than I do, posting here. Let me ask this question once again then:

    Would you trade your health care system for ours?

    I've asked that question before, BTW.
    Right now, I don't think so.

    But several years ago the American system was a far better deal. Canada has an advantage in that the doctors don't have the high insurance rates for malpractice, which certainly makes a difference. Rather than getting several millions of dollars for removing the wrong appendage, you get an apology. Americans visiting our hospitals felt they were run for indigents.

    I feel there has been collusion among the health care insurance lobbyists in the States to discourage competition among them by restricting each other to certain states or areas. I have no proof that this is so as I haven't investigated at all, but I am aware that it is restricted and can't understand why.

    It is my feeling that health care providers have been less worse than the government takeover will be, and it seems clear that there will be a takeover eventually. When there was a stronger doctor/patient relationship, before big providers got along and health care costs went up, the care was better and people were more responsible. Now people will be making appointments because they are lonely, as happens here in Canada, or every bit of gas is a heart attack. It doesn't seem that this has been well thought out.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If health insurance costs have been going up for years how are they going to be less expensive by adding many millions of more people into the system? Does anyone seriously beieve that health care costs will go down under government supervision?
    No, costs aren't going to go down by adding millions more peope into the system. That doesn't work. The health care reform that just passed is not likley to control costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Real competition should have been allowed between the health insurers. That's the only way to keep proces under control.

    Other countries who have health insurance always had to give up something in order to pay for it. In the west that something was always the military, and with the USA taking over their protection for them, that was never a serious problem. But now the military will decline in the United States just as it has elsewhere. This might not be such a bad thing if other countries can take up the slack, but they seem to be stretched to the limit by their unrealistic spending also.

    We have to give up something in order to pay for health care also, and what we're paying is more than other nations do. Saying that we'll have to give up the military in order to pay for health care ignores the fact that we're already paying more than those nations with national health care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And of course the health system will become ever more politicized, as it is elsewhere, and the American character will change dramatically. You'll all be California.
    We don't have universal health care in California, yet the state doesn't seem to be able to balance the budget. There must be another reason for this state's financial ills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are more NHS staff in the UK than there is in the US military, which should give everyone an idea how Topsy will grow.
    Aren't there more people living in the UK than there are in the US military as well? What kind of comparison are you making here?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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