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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Article 1 Section 8 gives Congress that ability but having the ability is quite different from having the responsibility to do something about social problems.

    Our Founders knew that power corrupts thus they put the power at the state level which is closer to the people where it belongs. Congress has increased the power of the Federal Govt. all in the name of compassion but all that really did was increase the debt and expand the social problems we have.
    Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's all about money, Dittohead, and bureaucracy. If the government wants you to wait two years for a hip transplant, as happens, you will wait two years. Or you will go to a country, as Canadians have been doing, to get the job done sooner.

    You can approve of Obamacare out of ideology or philosophically but it cannot be supported from either a medical or patient-care point of view. The doctor/patient relationship was eroded when big health-care insurance companies became involved and it will be eroded further when government gets involved. It's just the way it works, and we all instinctively know that
    First, "Obamacare" is not a national health care plan like exists in Canada, England, France, or any other modern nation.

    Second, you can support the plan that exists in those countries from a cost containment point of view.

    Third, the stories of Canadians flocking across the border for health care that they can't get in their own country are just that: stories. They were told when "Hillarycare" was being proposed and debated, and seem to have become believed as fact.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Canadian Premier Comes To US For Healthcare

    An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision... “This was my heart, my choice and my health,” Williams said late Monday from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla. “I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics.”..

    The 60-year-old Williams said doctors detected a heart murmur last spring and told him that one of his heart valves wasn’t closing properly, creating a leakage.

    He said he was told at the time that the problem was “moderate” and that he should come back for a checkup in six months.

    Eight months later, in December, his doctors told him the problem had become severe and urged him to get his valve repaired immediately or risk heart failure, he said...

    Williams said he didn’t announce his departure south of the border because he didn’t want to create “a media gong show,” but added that criticism would’ve followed him had he chose to have surgery in Canada.

    “I would’ve been criticized if I had stayed in Canada and had been perceived as jumping a line or a wait list. … I accept that. That’s public life,” he said.

    “(But) this is not a unique phenomenon to me. This is something that happens with lots of families throughout this country, so I make no apologies for that.”
    ..

    you know what lots of stories are? a trend.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What part of the statement that social welfare isn't a violation of the Constitution do you not understand? It is however a violation of the intent of our Founders who believed social problems were personal and better handled at the state and local levels. Article 1 Section 8 gives Congress that ability but having the ability is quite different from having the responsibility to do something about social problems. Our Founders knew that power corrupts thus they put the power at the state level which is closer to the people where it belongs. Congress has increased the power of the Federal Govt. all in the name of compassion but all that really did was increase the debt and expand the social problems we have.
    Which of th Founding Fathers do you channel?

    Is it a conversation or do they simply speak to you?

    How often do you channel this FF or FF's?

    Could you ask Jefferson to clear up this whole messy Sally Hemmings thing please?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, please provide for me, using the parameter that I said earlier about enumerated powers, where in the hell the constitution provides for generational welfare.


    j-mac
    Article I, Section 8, clauses 1 & 18 allow Congress to provide laws providing welfare.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Article I, Section 8, clauses 1 & 18 allow Congress to provide laws providing welfare.
    LOL.

    Yes, I know.

    General welfare
    taxation
    Commerce clause.

    In the interpretation of many on the left, this means they government has unlimited power to spend on anything, take anything, and get involved in any aspect of the market. Funny how you don't see issue with that.

    I mean, why do you really need any enumerated powers at all, when by a liberal interpretation they have infinite power?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    First, "Obamacare" is not a national health care plan like exists in Canada, England, France, or any other modern nation.

    Second, you can support the plan that exists in those countries from a cost containment point of view.

    Third, the stories of Canadians flocking across the border for health care that they can't get in their own country are just that: stories. They were told when "Hillarycare" was being proposed and debated, and seem to have become believed as fact.
    I'm a Canadian living in Vancouver right now and know for a fact that clinics have been set up on the other side of the border only to serve a Canadian clientčle. It's just a short drive.

    Admittedly this is only for wealthier Canadians who can afford to pay for the service and since the Canadian government has slowly allowed more private practice (once illegal) this might diminishing. It all depends on the seriousness of the illness.

    But, as I said earlier, believe whatever you want.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Article I, Section 8, clauses 1 & 18 allow Congress to provide laws providing welfare.
    Would that include food vouchers as well?

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    You let Libs loose and they eventually reveal their agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    i'll agree, we need cuts....but where...if the repubs think that they are going to force a bunch of cuts in social programs, they are deluding themselves...
    It is social programs that are drowning us. It is these things that have harmed the country. It is these programs that are corrupt, inefficient and failures. The delusion is thinking we can only look at the fat on the hog and not be able to slash it away.

    they will have to put some serious skin in the game as well, and they will have to take some huge cuts in areas that are traditional republican favorites, such as defense spending...
    Obama was asked during the Hopey/Changey Campaign what he would cut, and he couldn't come up with anything beyond the military. Here we have the chorus continuing the misguided nonsense. We know where the problem is, and it's not our defense spending that is the problem.

    National defense need not be cut, it need be funded to the max. That is spending approved by the Constitutional. We need to secure our borders and ensure our military isn't left underfunded as Clinton left them. Then we get complaints our equipment isn't up-armored, and we cannot fight a 2-front war... somthing The Clintons claimed we could do... which proved to be more BS.


    and while cutting spending, there will have to be a raise in taxes somewhere, and that is something repubs will have to be willing to accept, if we are ever going to get serious about bringing the deficit/debt down.
    No. Tax increases will make matters worse. Even JFK understood you have to cut taxes to raise all boats. Cut taxes and slash government intrusion into ares they have no busisness.

    The people didn't vote for playing with the edges. We have 13,000,000,000,000 little problems created by Eurosocialist BS. It's time to eliminate real problems.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    First, "Obamacare" is not a national health care plan like exists in Canada, England, France, or any other modern nation.
    Forcing people to buy a service under penalty of law isn't American.

    Second, you can support the plan that exists in those countries from a cost containment point of view.
    What cost containment? These Eurosocialist systems are imploding. From Stockholm to Seville, these programs result in rationed care, long waits, and corruption that increases costs.

    Third, the stories of Canadians flocking across the border for health care that they can't get in their own country are just that: stories. They were told when "Hillarycare" was being proposed and debated, and seem to have become believed as fact.
    Canadians are regularly sent south of the border for care because they either have to wait for, for months, or services they do not offer in Kanuckistan. Ask Ms. Stronach why, as a member of parliament, why she didn't wait and went south of the border? It is why the Quebec Supreme Court ruled waiting lists do not constitute "care".

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1592694/

    Can you help me find a family doctor?” It’s a question I’m asked practically every day in the hospital wards where I work. No wonder. According to the Canadian Medical Association, four million to five million people (16%) don’t have a family physician.

    The doctor shortage is a major problem with our health-care system. Unfortunately, it’s just one of many. Our patients wait too long for basic care. The system is plagued by too much bureaucracy. And despite a massive infusion of money – the Ontario health budget has roughly doubled in the past decade – we must acknowledge what no government official is willing to admit: Canadian health care falls short of what we deserve.

    ...There are still too many tragedies. Think of the Montreal woman who died recently after waiting four days in a hospital ER, the last of a string of Quebec deaths that led the head of that province’s College of Physicians to hope for a “miracle.”

    With so many problems, provincial governments are forced to spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year purchasing American health care for Canadians. Yes, our public dollars go to pay for their private health services.

    Canadians, though, are routinely told how well our health-care system compares to those of other nations. It’s not so. Take the United States. Despite the heated political rhetoric north of the 49th parallel about American health care, their patients are more likely to survive cancer (66.3 per cent over five years for American men, but 58 per cent for Canadian men, based on recent data from national databases). Their outcomes are also better for heart attacks and transplants. And, based on data from the Joint Canada/U.S. Survey of Health, Americans have greater access to preventive screening tests and higher treatment rates for chronic illnesses, and the poor under our public system seem to be less healthy relative to the non-poor than their American counterparts.

    People need to pay more directly for their health care. The objective isn’t to make a cancer patient burn her life savings to pay for her care – although this happens too often to some patients in Canada’s health-care system, as seen in a survey of breast cancer survivors released by the Canadian Breast Cancer Network recently.

    David Gratzer is a physician and author. He is participating in tonight’s Munk Debate, with the resolution: “Be it resolved: I would rather get sick in the U.S. than Canada.”

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-08-11 at 05:49 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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