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Thread: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There is a reason that Conservatives want to cut social spending and that reason is that the Federal Govt. has no business being involved in personal responsibility issues. The results speak for themselves. We have a 14 trillion dollar debt today because of programs like the Great Society and New Deal that is being funded by borrowed money. The fact is state and local communities are responsible for their own citizens and it is up to those entities, not the Federal Bureaucracy to solve social problems. Over 60% of the budget is entitlement spending and that is rediculous waste of money. Because of the dollar amount those entitlement programs are full of waste, fraud, and abuse just like the rest of the Federal Govt.

    I have no problem with a thorough review of the military spending and budget requests. Serious discussions have to take place BUT the role of the Federal Govt. is protection, not providing welfare. This govt. needs to learn to live on less and let the American people keep more of what they earn.
    Sounds like you are not familiar with Article I Section 8 of the Constitution.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sounds like you are not familiar with Article I Section 8 of the Constitution.
    You don't have to go that far, read the Preamble. The ability to tax never was the issue, what really is the issue is the role and responsibility of the Federal Govt. and the Preamble sets the stage.
    Last edited by Conservative; 01-05-11 at 07:42 PM.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There is a reason that Conservatives want to cut social spending and that reason is that the Federal Govt. has no business being involved in personal responsibility issues. The results speak for themselves. We have a 14 trillion dollar debt today because of programs like the Great Society and New Deal that is being funded by borrowed money. The fact is state and local communities are responsible for their own citizens and it is up to those entities, not the Federal Bureaucracy to solve social problems. Over 60% of the budget is entitlement spending and that is rediculous waste of money. Because of the dollar amount those entitlement programs are full of waste, fraud, and abuse just like the rest of the Federal Govt.

    I have no problem with a thorough review of the military spending and budget requests. Serious discussions have to take place BUT the role of the Federal Govt. is protection, not providing welfare. This govt. needs to learn to live on less and let the American people keep more of what they earn.
    I agree that it isn't the federal govenment's role to provide welfare, and that the welfare state has to be rethought. Some of the "social spending" is not welfare, however. Take Social security, for example. For the past 45 years or so, the SS system has taken in more than it has spent, and the federal government has spent the difference. Now that the baby boomers are coming of age, the tables have turned, and SS is no longer a cash cow, so we hear about "reforming" it, and cutting it back. No, what needs to be done is that the funds be placed in a trust outside of the general fund, (where they should have been all along), and those IOUs paid back. Moreover, SS was never supposed to have been a welfare program. We need to quit paying out funds to people who didn't pay in to the system until retirement age. That alone would keep it solvent for a good long time to come.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You don't have to go that far, read the Preamble. The ability to tax never was the issue, what really is the issue is the role and responsibility of the Federal Govt. and the Preamble sets the stage.

    Article I, Section 8 - its all there.
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I agree that it isn't the federal govenment's role to provide welfare, and that the welfare state has to be rethought. Some of the "social spending" is not welfare, however. Take Social security, for example. For the past 45 years or so, the SS system has taken in more than it has spent, and the federal government has spent the difference. Now that the baby boomers are coming of age, the tables have turned, and SS is no longer a cash cow, so we hear about "reforming" it, and cutting it back. No, what needs to be done is that the funds be placed in a trust outside of the general fund, (where they should have been all along), and those IOUs paid back. Moreover, SS was never supposed to have been a welfare program. We need to quit paying out funds to people who didn't pay in to the system until retirement age. That alone would keep it solvent for a good long time to come.
    SS was never intended to be collected. When passed the average life expectancy was 62 with retirement at 65. It has turned into quite a ponzi scheme. You are right it was a cash cow and LBJ saw that it was a way to pay for the Vietnam War and Great Society thus he with the support of Congress put SS on Budget allowing Congress to spend the excess SS receipts instead of putting those receipts aside for individual retirements. Right now IOU's populate the Intergovt. holdings and that is a travisty

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Article I, Section 8 - its all there.
    It is power taken by Congress that was never intended. Yes, it is all there but it is time to get back to the country's roots. I would have thought that someone who taught civics would also know American history. Our founders knew that power corrupts thus put the power at the state level closer to the people. Career politicians have chipped away at that vision to create a larger Central Govt. Although that may serve you well, it certainly doesn't serve the majority in this country that are now dependent on that govt. and have to fund a 14+ trillion dollar debt.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is power taken by Congress that was never intended. Yes, it is all there but it is time to get back to the country's roots. I would have thought that someone who taught civics would also know American history. Our founders knew that power corrupts thus put the power at the state level closer to the people. Career politicians have chipped away at that vision to create a larger Central Govt. Although that may serve you well, it certainly doesn't serve the majority in this country that are now dependent on that govt. and have to fund a 14+ trillion dollar debt.
    I know my calendar does not read 1787.

    Does yours?
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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I know my calendar does not read 1787.

    Does yours?
    What does the year have to do with the vision of our Founders and the Constitution? Maybe it should read 1787 in some areas again especially when it comes to the role of the Federal Govt. What does the Preamble say about that role?

    When those Congressional Representatives took their oath today they did so on the Constitution of the United States. Tomorrow it is going to be read on the floor of the House. I suggest you TVO it and watch it when you get a chance as it appears that you may have forgotten much about that Constitution.

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    There are actually 2 sides to this story.

    1) If we don't raise the debt ceiling, then the US defaults on all it's debt, thus causing a financial panic that would be even worse than the Great Depression.

    2) If we do raise the debt ceiling, then the US is only delaying the inevitable.

    Fact is, there is no way in hell we are ever going to be able to pay back what we owe. So let's just default now. Yes, it will hurt like hell, but better to bite the bullet now, than put it off to a future date, when the result will be even worse.

    And, when it comes time to pay the piper, whether now, or in the future, we had better damn well hope that we have learned our lesson, and finally begin to start living within our means. There are NO money trees. The money we are spending now has to come from someplace, and when we spend recklessly, that money comes directly from the asses that we are all putting on the line, and are soon going to be handed to us. When it all hits the fan, then let's make a point of never acting so fiscally irresponsible, ever again. After all, it's OUR asses.

    My opinion? Time to bite the bullet, folks.
    You don't have to default if you don't increase the debt limit. The spending just has to be reduced to below the revenue level.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You don't have to default if you don't increase the debt limit. The spending just has to be reduced to below the revenue level.
    So will they be waiving the interest payments from now on???

    Thank you for revealing you understand nothing about the topic.

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