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Thread: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well I think that abolishing parties would do well in the senses that it would not make it so that the situation was viewed through and "us VS them" lense, but rather politicians would see each other as people and fellow Americans.
    It would be impossible to do. Anytime you have a group of politicians, making decision, factions will always grow within that group. It's inevitable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Who keeps an eye on them now? It's not like the Republocrats actually do anything to keep each other in line. They just endlessly argue against themselves and then never do anything. No one is being kept in check, both sides are expanding their power and enlarging government (and our debt).

    In the end I understand why there are political parties and that because of our system we'll have 2 major parties. However, the parties in and of themselves are not organizations bent on self-limitation and neither really does anything to police the other.
    The parties watch each other. That's the whole point of a two party system. Is it perfect? No. But it beats a single party system, where the right hand isn't watching the left hand, because everybody's in the same party. The Russians tried a one party system. It didn't work all that well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The parties watch each other. That's the whole point of a two party system. Is it perfect? No. But it beats a single party system, where the right hand isn't watching the left hand, because everybody's in the same party. The Russians tried a one party system. It didn't work all that well.
    We are essentially a one party system. The Republocrats have rigged the system well enough that their power will not be threatened. They just teeter-totter between who is in charge. They may watch each other so they can bounce talking points off each other; but they're not really doing anything to keep the other in check. They both operate in very similar manners (which is why functionally there is very little difference between Bush and Obama). If there were true competition and actual regulating of the parties by the other; then I may be inclined to agree with you. But what we functionally have today isn't some system where two parties are watching each other, making sure the other side is acting correctly, enforcing ethics and law on each other. It's a big circus now. A magic trick. They are not regulating each other, and have been successful at cutting out proper political competition to such a degree as to have secured their power. Sure, they'll endlessly bitch about the other side; but push comes to shove...they ain't gonna do a damned thing.

    If you want a proper two party system, you have to have healthy debate, proper competition, and a system open enough so that if one of the main parties stagnates, it can easily be replaced.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We are essentially a one party system. The Republocrats have rigged the system well enough that their power will not be threatened. They just teeter-totter between who is in charge. They may watch each other so they can bounce talking points off each other; but they're not really doing anything to keep the other in check. They both operate in very similar manners (which is why functionally there is very little difference between Bush and Obama). If there were true competition and actual regulating of the parties by the other; then I may be inclined to agree with you. But what we functionally have today isn't some system where two parties are watching each other, making sure the other side is acting correctly, enforcing ethics and law on each other. It's a big circus now. A magic trick. They are not regulating each other, and have been successful at cutting out proper political competition to such a degree as to have secured their power. Sure, they'll endlessly bitch about the other side; but push comes to shove...they ain't gonna do a damned thing.

    If you want a proper two party system, you have to have healthy debate, proper competition, and a system open enough so that if one of the main parties stagnates, it can easily be replaced.

    On some of that in the past I am inclined to agree with you Ikari, however, this country is moving toward further polarization, even though Obama claimed to put partisan differences aside for the good of the nation, he has done the opposite. Would you say that furthering of the polarization that we experience now is a good thing?


    j-mac
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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    On some of that in the past I am inclined to agree with you Ikari, however, this country is moving toward further polarization, even though Obama claimed to put partisan differences aside for the good of the nation, he has done the opposite. Would you say that furthering of the polarization that we experience now is a good thing?


    j-mac
    We have been polarized for quite some time, extremely so. Obama didn't start the trend. Just carried forward with it in true Republocrat fashion. The extreme polarization of the political landscape is incredibly dangerous to the Republic. It's used for talking points, not action. It's used to discourage thinking by the populace at large. Look how bad the D is you have to vote for R, look how bad the R is, you have to vote for D. Blah blah blah. But behind it all is the fact that neither party is very good. Neither party is particularly interested in their proper constraints and regulations. They want people only to think well the other side is so bad, I have no choice but to vote for this one. And when you do so, you stagnate the political arena. It's slow death. And that's what is currently happening to the Republic...slow death. I don't want to have to vote for the lesser of two evils just because the main party rigged the system so its two halves cannot lose power. I want to vote for the guy who is best qualified, best able to do the job and whom adheres to my political platform. But the polarization of the political process, the rigging of the system by the Republocrats to close off proper competition has driven us to an area where we are essentially always voting for the lesser of two evills. But when you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are left with evil.

    The extreme polarization is manufactured by the Republocrats to remove thinking by the People.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We have been polarized for quite some time, extremely so. Obama didn't start the trend. Just carried forward with it in true Republocrat fashion. The extreme polarization of the political landscape is incredibly dangerous to the Republic. It's used for talking points, not action. It's used to discourage thinking by the populace at large. Look how bad the D is you have to vote for R, look how bad the R is, you have to vote for D. Blah blah blah. But behind it all is the fact that neither party is very good. Neither party is particularly interested in their proper constraints and regulations. They want people only to think well the other side is so bad, I have no choice but to vote for this one. And when you do so, you stagnate the political arena. It's slow death. And that's what is currently happening to the Republic...slow death. I don't want to have to vote for the lesser of two evils just because the main party rigged the system so its two halves cannot lose power. I want to vote for the guy who is best qualified, best able to do the job and whom adheres to my political platform. But the polarization of the political process, the rigging of the system by the Republocrats to close off proper competition has driven us to an area where we are essentially always voting for the lesser of two evills. But when you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are left with evil.

    The extreme polarization is manufactured by the Republocrats to remove thinking by the People.

    Not a whole lot to disagree with there, except a question....How would you define the system as "rigged", and what is the answer to fix that so that everyone has an equal chance to get their message out?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not a whole lot to disagree with there, except a question....How would you define the system as "rigged", and what is the answer to fix that so that everyone has an equal chance to get their message out?


    j-mac
    Things like McCain/Feingold and such did wonders to close down the system. If you're independently wealthy, you can run third party (as Perot showed...man was crazy but because he was rich he was able to get coverage and ended up with 10% of the vote); but otherwise it's Republocrat or go home. Additionally, the "debates" are nothing of the sort. It's completely closed off to third party candidates, it's nothing more than a show put on with pre-determined questions and stump speeches at hand. It does nothing for us. I would make it so individuals can contribute money as they see fit. Corporations are not entities with rights, but the individual is. I'd like to see the League of Women Voters take over the Presidential debates again and I'd like there to be proper coverage of third party candidates and a system open to their participation. I use this example a lot. During the Bush/Kerry elections, Michael Badnarik and David Cobb (libertarian and green party candidate respectively) were arrested outside the Presidential debates. Handcuffed, put in the back of a police cruiser, and taken off to jail. 2 Presidential candidates were arrested outside the Presidential Debates. Does that sound like a good thing? Does that even sound American? We're arresting political candidates because they aren't in the "right" party. Wow. It blows my mind that there wasn't coverage and outrage at this. How can you say we legitimately have a democratic Republic when we're arresting Presidential candidates outside the Presidential Debates?

    I understand the notion that we can't let everybody in because if we have 15 candidates at a Presidential debate, we can't get any real information. However, we currently cannot get any real information anyway. And there's no reason why the number has to be limited to 2. Maybe 5, those 5 being the 5 which had the highest popular votes in the last election. That's a bit better. What we truly need is proper political competition. Without competition things will stagnate and parties will entrench themselves. Because of the winner take all system we have, we will be stable at 2 main parties; and that's fine. So long as those parties understand that they are there only for as long as they can remain a competitive and proper political party. We can always have parties waiting in the wings to take over, and we'll have to cycle parties often because all parties will corrupt over time.

    If we want to control the government, then we need to have control over the parties as well. Which means informed voting decisions, and data on all the candidates involved. The rules must be set up to allow the individual to participate, and to allow proper political competition and debate.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We are essentially a one party system. The Republocrats have rigged the system well enough that their power will not be threatened. They just teeter-totter between who is in charge. They may watch each other so they can bounce talking points off each other; but they're not really doing anything to keep the other in check. They both operate in very similar manners (which is why functionally there is very little difference between Bush and Obama). If there were true competition and actual regulating of the parties by the other; then I may be inclined to agree with you. But what we functionally have today isn't some system where two parties are watching each other, making sure the other side is acting correctly, enforcing ethics and law on each other. It's a big circus now. A magic trick. They are not regulating each other, and have been successful at cutting out proper political competition to such a degree as to have secured their power. Sure, they'll endlessly bitch about the other side; but push comes to shove...they ain't gonna do a damned thing.

    If you want a proper two party system, you have to have healthy debate, proper competition, and a system open enough so that if one of the main parties stagnates, it can easily be replaced.
    They teeter-totter, with thelp from the people. Were you watching the news on November 3?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They teeter-totter, with thelp from the people. Were you watching the news on November 3?
    Get back to me when they actually stop the theft, the lies, the murder and the death
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Get back to me when they actually stop the theft, the lies, the murder and the death
    The murder and the death?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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