Page 3 of 22 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 217

Thread: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

  1. #21
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Let me just add to my previous post that I think charities would probably move in to fill the gaps for most of those that truly can’t afford health insurance.
    What charities? Like the Red Cross who runs massive debt often and their disaster relief supplies are frequently being depleated by worldwide disasters that they respond to?

    It's just a fact of life - there will always be 'poor' - and there will always be people who *don't* care and most certainly many who won't be donating to save their fellow man from anything.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  2. #22
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Last Seen
    03-18-13 @ 02:59 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,544

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    ...Being forced to wait until a condition becomes serious-to-life-threatening and then being stuck with a bill 10 times higher than what it would have been a month earlier is not what I would call good access.
    That's not the way it works in California. Here they show up at an ER whenever they want, and they say they can't pay. They get the treatment for free and that's the end of it.

  3. #23
    Guru
    GPS_Flex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    02-11-17 @ 11:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,719

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    What charities? Like the Red Cross who runs massive debt often and their disaster relief supplies are frequently being depleated by worldwide disasters that they respond to?

    It's just a fact of life - there will always be 'poor' - and there will always be people who *don't* care and most certainly many who won't be donating to save their fellow man from anything.
    Give me a break. Americans are the most charitable people on the planet. If the government stopped redistributing so much of our money, Red Cross would probably be doing a lot better.

    Like I said though, if people know they wonít get treatment if they donít buy insurance, the rate of uninsured will drop astronomically.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  4. #24
    Guru
    GPS_Flex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    02-11-17 @ 11:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,719

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    That's not the way it works in California. Here they show up at an ER whenever they want, and they say they can't pay. They get the treatment for free and that's the end of it.
    I can attest to this. Last time I was in an ER it was filled with people wearing shoes and jackets etc. that cost way more than I pay for my clothes and I know most of them didn’t have insurance.
    Many were there for flu like symptoms or other minor issues. It’s pretty bad in Cali.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  5. #25
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Give me a break. Americans are the most charitable people on the planet. If the government stopped redistributing so much of our money, Red Cross would probably be doing a lot better.
    There's not a single successfull story that I can think of which would prove you correct on your assumption that our fellow citizens will assist each other sufficiently.
    Welfare - it's like a drug. . .the more you give - the more they 'need' - the more they 'need' - the less successful you will be at weening them off. . . enact the 12 step program (so to say) and make a slow process and maybe there's be a few who can become self-sufficient.

    Like I said though, if people know they won’t get treatment if they don’t buy insurance, the rate of uninsured will drop astronomically.
    Why do people *have* to have insurance?
    I've know quite a few people who don't have insurance - by choice - and who still cover the cost for all of their ails without faulter.

    They are the ultimate in self-sufficiency.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-03-11 at 11:14 PM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  6. #26
    Guru
    GPS_Flex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    02-11-17 @ 11:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,719

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    That's not the way it works in California. Here they show up at an ER whenever they want, and they say they can't pay. They get the treatment for free and that's the end of it.
    I can attest to this. Last time I was in an ER it was filled with people wearing shoes and jackets etc. that cost way more than I pay for my clothes and I know most of them didnít have insurance.
    Many were there for flu like symptoms or other minor issues. Itís pretty bad in Cali.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  7. #27
    Guru
    GPS_Flex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    02-11-17 @ 11:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,719

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Welfare - it's like a drug. . .the more you give - the more they 'need' - the more they 'need' - the less successful you will be at weening them off. . . enact the 12 step program.
    You must me talking about taxes and the government. At least with welfare you have a choice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Why do people *have* to have insurance?
    I've know quite a few people who don't have insurance - by choice - and who still cover the cost for all of their ails without faulter.

    They are the ultimate in self-sufficiency.
    More power to them. They are being personally responsible for themselves.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  8. #28
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You must me talking about taxes and the government. At least with welfare you have a choice.
    You know - my Dad's a minister. They run a church with a social outreach program, a food pantry and a free medical clinic . . . The church pays for all these programs by donation from it's members.
    They are always short by thousands every year. I've even donated.
    They have had to reduce the number of people they provide food for. They've reduced the number of patients the clinic sees.

    This is the extent of our current charity.

    My Dad's response to people who come to him for help these days when he no longer has money to give to assist with prescriptions and other such things: "Here, I'll help you fill out the paperwork for you to go to the government and get help there."

    Charity only goes so far - especially when a charity or a church's pocketbook ALSO takes a hard and unavoidable hit BECAUSE of the government's decisions which tank our country. . . the recession hit everyone - major business, banks and stores collapsed and charitable programs went with them.

    At least the government can continue to borrow, can raise taxes, and can cut and reallocate it's spending to cover it's other spending. . . but churches and businesses and organizations all too often have to just close their doors when the money dries up.

    That's what happens when a country suffers financially - there is no money to give around. . . and in order for families who are strapped for cash to cover the basics - they've culled back on spending (which is good) but they've also significantly culled back on charitable giving (which si bad for organizations like the Red Cross).

    So - unless charitable programs are recession proof and can churn a profit to turn into charity when people stop donating - your belief in them, while nice and positive, is unrealistic.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-04-11 at 11:22 AM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  9. #29
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,766

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is not that the GOP and liberals can't agree on things that actually help the situation, but in a 2100 page bill, how many things tucked in there do you think are actually NOT about health care? I think alot.

    j-mac
    If you really feel that strongly against the PPAC Act, maybe you should read the bill, outline those things you really don't like about it and then write your Congressman/Senator and ask that he/she strengthen the bill instead of trying to repeal it just to win political brownie points.

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    This was proposed by my rep. U.S. Congressman John Shadegg : Serving the 3rd District of Arizona

    There were many alternatives before the obamacare abortion was passed,still are, many still refuse to open their eyes. Partisan blinders maybe? I am not sure how long this country can afford that game.
    As I said in post #8, many of the proposals made by GOP candidates were very identical to those that eventual made their way into the PPAC Act. Except for the tax credit proposed in Congressman Shadegg's bill, everything else is pretty much the same as what eventually was passed. In fact, I came across this article that highlights what Congressman Boehnor proposes should the PPAC Act be repealed; the review given illustrates that except for eliminating the individual mandate (which many promonent Republicans supported in the past) Boehnor's bill really isn't that much different from the PPAC Act. Moreover, these snippets from two of Newt Gingrich's own books speak directly to the need for the individual mandate:


    Finally, we should insist that everyone above a certain level buy coverage (or, if they are opposed to insurance, post a bond). Meanwhile, we should provide tax credits or subsidize private insurance for the poor.

    ....

    You have the right to be part of the lowest-cost insurance pool and you have a responsibility to buy insurance. We need some significant changes to ensure that every American is insured, but we should make it clear that a 21st Century Intelligent System requires everyone to participate in the insurance system.

    [...]

    People who for libertarian reasons do not want to be insured should be required to post a bond so their health care costs will be covered if they have an accident or an expensive illness.
    Yes, the source in MediaMatters, but its source is Newt's own manuscript. How anyone among the GOP can refute this is comical!!! While it appears that Newt seems to place the mandate at the state-level rather than at the federal level, nothing in his manuscripts makes that distiction clear especially when he says people should be "required" to participate in the insurance system or be "required" to post a bond to pay for their own health care expenses. To that, I'm wondering exactly how would this "requirement" be enforced across the entire country without such being written directly into federal law?

    Truth is, the GOP leadership was for the individual mandate long before they were against it. They may have had their own reasons for supporting it then that may be a little different from why Democrats wanted it, but the bottom line is many members of the GOP were for the mandate, including one of their top spokespersons, before they suddenly turned against it.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 01-04-11 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #30
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,766

    Re: G.O.P. Newcomers Set Out to Undo Obama Victories

    I meant to link to this article which illustrates my point better where past support by the GOP on the individual mandate is concerned. But the USAToday.com article hits home two interesting points as well: Both Nixon and GHW Bush both supported an individual mandate with their health care reform measures. Just goes to show a historical fact: Republicans were for the mandate as long as it was their idea instituted in their own way. But once it became a Democrat idea, suddenly the mandate became "unconstitutional" and the ensuing excuse for not supporting it now has been, "we didn't know then what we know know about why it was such a bad idea". Really?

    A few names of those within the GOP who once supported the individual mandate (four of which are still in Congress today):

    John McCain, Charles Grassley, Chris Bond, Robert Bennet, Mark Pauly, Bill Frist, Tommy Thompson and Orrin Hatch

    There are doctors and lawyers among the GOP political landscape who were in Congress then and are still in Congress now, but you didn't know then what you know now concerning the concept behind an idea that was yours to begin with? Anyone who believes that garbage is just fooling themselves.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 01-04-11 at 01:16 PM.

Page 3 of 22 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •