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Thread: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    He did that after his discharge.
    Well, I think he was still in the service when he did all that and if he wasn't he's guilty of impersonating a United States military officer.

    Either way, he broke the rules, he's unproffessional, he sets a bad example for his soldiers and he doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. That's what this whole discussion is about.

    I'm starting to think that Dan Choi is being held to a different standard, because he's gay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, I think he was still in the service when he did all that and if he wasn't he's guilty of impersonating a United States military officer.

    Either way, he broke the rules, he's unproffessional, he sets a bad example for his soldiers and he doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. That's what this whole discussion is about.

    I'm starting to think that Dan Choi is being held to a different standard, because he's gay.
    We can hardly discharge him, and then say that he is not, post discharge, obeying the rules pf the military.

    You are welcome to think what you want. I think you are just using him to flog an issue you don't like. The reality is that if his discharge and re-enlistment code is what will determine whether he can re-enlist(holy double standard!), and the reality also is that I was one who stated that in the case this thread was about I felt the military over-reacted. Now please show me the different standards I am using...
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    I don't believe that Dan Choi should be allowed to return to service as an officer. I respect him personally, and I commend him for his willingness to sacrifice his career in order to change this policy, but I don't believe that his actions, since leaving the service, have been in accordance with returning to serve as an officer.

    Chaining himself to the White House fence, in uniform, was over the line. He's made himself into a political polarizing figure, and officers can't do that. They have to be above/outside of politics to a large degree, in order to lead effectively.

    That's just my take.

    And, I think that I formed that opinion while working for the past 11 years for a retired Army colonel. Everything I know about military officers and who/what they should be, I've learned from my boss and my boyfriend. They're true credits to their respective services.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 01-06-11 at 11:29 AM.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    We can hardly discharge him, and then say that he is not, post discharge, obeying the rules pf the military.
    He committed those offenses while he wass still in the service. Even if he hadn't, he has an arrest record. He sets a bad example for his soldiers and should be held to same high standard that Honors is being held to.

    You are welcome to think what you want. I think you are just using him to flog an issue you don't like. The reality is that if his discharge and re-enlistment code is what will determine whether he can re-enlist(holy double standard!), and the reality also is that I was one who stated that in the case this thread was about I felt the military over-reacted. Now please show me the different standards I am using...

    I'm not doing any such thing. I'm pointing out that officers have a responsibility to conduct themselves in a certain manner and if they fail to meet that responsibility, they don't deserve to be officers. I've found common ground on that issue with my opposite numbers, like never before, on any issue. Now--since we're talking about a gay soldier--you're saying that rules should be applied differently.

    Honors didn't violate any written rules. Dan Choi did. The same standard applies

    I'll say it again, any officer that doesn't meet and maintain the standards is a piece of **** and doesn't deserve to wear the uniform.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    This is not the time or place for Naval recruitment videos.
    This is Navy recruiting......



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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He committed those offenses while he wass still in the service. Even if he hadn't, he has an arrest record. He sets a bad example for his soldiers and should be held to same high standard that Honors is being held to.
    Did he? Seems like when I looked it up he had not, but to be honest I don't remember. Can you link to the offenses he committed while in service? The arrest record I had not thought of and might keep him out, and I have no problem with that. It's the rules.

    I'm not doing any such thing. I'm pointing out that officers have a responsibility to conduct themselves in a certain manner and if they fail to meet that responsibility, they don't deserve to be officers. I've found common ground on that issue with my opposite numbers, like never before, on any issue. Now--since we're talking about a gay soldier--you're saying that rules should be applied differently.

    Honors didn't violate any written rules. Dan Choi did. The same standard applies

    I'll say it again, any officer that doesn't meet and maintain the standards is a piece of **** and doesn't deserve to wear the uniform.
    Honors in fact may have violated written rules. "Conduct unbecoming" could potentially be claimed with some justification. Missuse of government equipment could also be claimed. I also point out, again, that I stated in this very thread that I thought the military overreacted in his case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ohhhhhh, so that now we're talking about a gay soldier--a more PC situation--it suddenly comes with conditions.
    Not at all. I don't care if the person is gay/straight or whatever. If the level of judgement is so poor that it affects there ability or calls into question their ability to govern...then they should be canned regardless of their sexual orientation/gender/ethnicity...or whatever.

    You are asking me to comment on a case that I am not familiar with the facts. If what the soldier you are talking about engaged in misconduct that was egrigious, then absolutely he should be canned as well.
    I'm just not sure what "shall be punished as a court martial dictates" means. Does that mean that a court martial is appropriate in all cases? If so, then absolutely can him. If it means that it is subject to discretion, then I would have to know the circumstnaces and what the usual punishment is for that type of offense.
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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    American, some recruiting posters for the navy seem almost aimed at gays:





    And then there is the marines:

    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Did he? Seems like when I looked it up he had not, but to be honest I don't remember. Can you link to the offenses he committed while in service? The arrest record I had not thought of and might keep him out, and I have no problem with that. It's the rules.
    Choi was arrested in March of 2010, when he handcuffed himself to the White House fence, in uniform. He wasn't discharged until July of 2010.



    Honors in fact may have violated written rules. "Conduct unbecoming" could potentially be claimed with some justification. Missuse of government equipment could also be claimed. I also point out, again, that I stated in this very thread that I thought the military overreacted in his case.
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Navy opens investigation into raunchy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not at all. I don't care if the person is gay/straight or whatever. If the level of judgement is so poor that it affects there ability or calls into question their ability to govern...then they should be canned regardless of their sexual orientation/gender/ethnicity...or whatever.

    You are asking me to comment on a case that I am not familiar with the facts. If what the soldier you are talking about engaged in misconduct that was egrigious, then absolutely he should be canned as well.
    I'm just not sure what "shall be punished as a court martial dictates" means. Does that mean that a court martial is appropriate in all cases? If so, then absolutely can him. If it means that it is subject to discretion, then I would have to know the circumstnaces and what the usual punishment is for that type of offense.
    In Dan Choi's case, all that applies.

    I find it funny, now, that some of you are dead certain that Honors shouldn't be allowed to serve as an officer, but when it comes to Dan Choi, you all of sudden don't know.

    I think that illustrates that the real outrage over Honors is because he picked on gays, not so much that he made an idiotic video and showed it to his crew.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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