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Thread: "No refusal" DUI checkpoints could be coming to Tampa

  1. #111
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    Re: "No refusal" DUI checkpoints could be coming to Tampa

    Quote Originally Posted by E_Pluribus_Venom View Post
    A lot of "unconstitutional" cries in this thread... and I agree. However, I wonder how many think we should search muslims at airports simply because they're muslim.
    Irrelevant.

    And just to note: opposing one method doesn't automatically make you in favor of another by default.
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  2. #112
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    Re: "No refusal" DUI checkpoints could be coming to Tampa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Why would people inflate stats? To form propaganda, to excuse expansion of government power. The fact is drinking and driving is dangerous and needs to be watched for. However, not all the alcohol related deaths that are quoted were due to alcohol. The numbers are inflated in order to say "hey look at this". I don't think people say others should be allowed to drink and drive. It's that we've made the punishments horrible and have excused all sorts of government force against us in the name of it. There are reasonable DUI laws and procedures, and there's what we currently have which does not properly reflect the crime.
    You have a point there. Some of the DUI laws are perfectly reasonable, as no one wants to share the road with drunks. A big fine and temporary loss of license fits the crime. Where they go too far, IMO, is when the drunk driver is charged with murder when someone is killed in an accident. The drunk may only be a part of the cause, for one thing. For another, if two people have the same number of drinks, then get behind the wheel, both have committed the same egregious error. If one of them is caught, fined, and spends the night in a drunk tank, while the other winds up in an accident and charged with murder, it hardly seems just. Manslaughter is a more reasonable charge when the accident is caused by the drinking driver.
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  3. #113
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    Re: "No refusal" DUI checkpoints could be coming to Tampa

    I agree with the manslaughter point. I never thought it right to charge drunk drivers with murder. It's just the retribution attitude we have when we emotionally think about drunk driving. It's an accident. Someone drunk driving isn't looking to murder someone, they're looking to get home. Now they may have acted in a matter which was reckless and leads to other crimes; which all have proper punishments behind it. But it's not an intentional act, and in my mind that's what really defines murder over manslaughter. There was a guy in CO who got charged with murder 1 because he killed someone in a road rage accident. Now in that case, he most certainly intended harm as he used his vehicle as a weapon. But I don't think it was so premeditated to get a murder 1 charge; murder 2 I could have seen. But we seem to like revenge based tactics and in so doing apply harsher punishments than need be. Currently you can be jailed on your first DUI in CO. And in general, it's an expensive ticket often costing thousands and thousands of dollars. I don't see that as reasonable punishment, particularly if there was no property or personal damage caused. Also, I think the therapy classes are complete BS. They stack that on top of the classes you have to do. And even on your first offense, no damage done, if you want you car back for work or something you have to pay to have a breathalyzer installed and pay the monthly fee associated with it to use your car. I can maybe see that on repeat offenders, but not first time no damage done offenders.

    I think we've just taken the punishments and went out of control because DUI is very emotional and some refuse to detach emotion from the crime.
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  4. #114
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    Re: "No refusal" DUI checkpoints could be coming to Tampa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think we've just taken the punishments and went out of control because DUI is very emotional and some refuse to detach emotion from the crime.
    Yes, we do attach emotion to several crimes, and then try to change behavior by imposing draconian punishments. As an example, we have pot dealers in jail for more time than armed robbers in some cases. Drunk driving is the same sort of thing. The fast, aggressive driver causes more accidents, yet the punishment is less for reckless driving. The goal is, or should be, to get as many druks off the road as possible. Is charging people with murder for an accident getting us closer to the goal? I'd say no, probably not. The guy leaving the bar and deciding to try to make it home isn't thinking about that anyway.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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