Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 83

Thread: Armed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

  1. #31
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I bet you didn't say that when we invaded Iraq.
    I opposed the war in Iraq because it was a boneheaded geopolitical move, not because I wanted to stick it to George Bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    Like I said, without rooting out the goof-balls and a years long occupation, it's a waste of time. I'm opposed to going into a country, losing men in a firefight, just to go back and do it all over again.
    I think that's assuming a lot more than is reasonable to assume. You're assuming 1) there would be a firefight, 2) that we'd need to do it again, 3) that all this would take place in a vacuum. Having said that, I have no illusions that this would be the only such intervention we'd need to make...I don't know whether the next one would be in Cote D'Ivoire or somewhere else, and it really doesn't matter to me. The benefits go beyond the immediate goal of instituting a democratically-elected leader...the long-term goal is that after a few such interventions in impoverished nations, the idea of overthrowing a democratically-elected government will be sufficiently unattractive that all but the most brazen leaders don't even try it anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    Preparing for war with the U.S.? The Iranian army couldn't even defeat the Iraqi Army.
    I'm not saying they'd WIN a war against the US, but they've been preparing for it. They'd certainly be able to do some major damage, destabilize the entire region, play games with the price of oil, and get us bogged down in a lengthy occupation. The government of Cote D'Ivoire does not have the ability to do any of those things, and so Cote D'Ivoire is an excellent candidate for our help.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    Never underestimate your enemy.
    Never overestimate him either. And a realistic comparison of the military strength of Cote D'Ivoire (and specifically the factions of the military loyal to Gbagbo) and the military strength of the United States of America should tell you all you need to know about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    A thousand? Sending just a thousand troops--basically a battalion--is asking for trouble. The smart play would be to send a division, to overwhelm any resistance that might exist and don't tie their hands behind their backs with stupid ROE's.
    I don't know the precise number of troops that would be necessary...but no stronger than Gbagbo's position is, it would need not be very many. And I agree that our troops should be willing and able to engage if necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    That's different from anywhere else in Africa, how?
    Somalia is vastly different from Cote D'Ivoire (or just about anywhere else in Africa). Somalia is far poorer than Cote D'Ivoire. Mogadishu (unlike Abidjan) is ruled by warlords. Mass communication and cell phones were not ubiquitous in Mogadishu in 1993, as they are in Abidjan in 2010. Somalia had no history of democracy as Cote D'Ivoire does. And we didn't have any local partners to work with in Somalia, unlike Cote D'Ivoire.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    he mission was very clear: to root out and destroy the militias.
    No, that was the post-hoc assessment of the mission. There was a great deal of mission creep. Originally we were just trying to deliver food from the UN, then we were trying to stop the warlords from stealing the food, then we were fighting the warlords and their militias. In Cote D'Ivoire, in contrast, we'd have a pretty clear-cut mission: Depose Gbagbo and his henchmen, turn the keys over to Outtara, establish order for a few weeks while Outtara gets his administration in place, and get out.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    Perfect reason not to be there.

    Another perfect reason not to be there.

    The #1 reason not to be there, however, was because we didn't have a CIC that was willing to destroy the aggressors. I'm talking about Bush as much as I am Clinton.
    I agree, we should not have intervened in Somalia in 1993.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-29-10 at 03:13 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #32
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    For a point of comparison, Cote D'Ivoire spends about $94 million annually on its military. The city of Louisville, Kentucky spends about $152 million annually on its police force. So imagine that the mayor of Louisville seceded and declared himself emperor, and the US military went in to intervene. How long do you think the conflict between the US military and the Louisville police force (most of whom wouldn't even want to fight) would last?

    It's laughable, and for good reason. That's the level of resistance we'd be likely to encounter in Cote D'Ivoire if we intervened.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #33
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    For a point of comparison, Cote D'Ivoire spends about $94 million annually on its military. The city of Louisville, Kentucky spends about $152 million annually on its police force. So imagine that the mayor of Louisville seceded and declared himself emperor, and the US military went in to intervene. How long do you think the conflict between the US military and the Louisville police force (most of whom wouldn't even want to fight) would last?

    It's laughable, and for good reason. That's the level of resistance we'd be likely to encounter in Cote D'Ivoire if we intervened.
    You do know that the country just came out of a civil war between the two sides right? Thinking that one side will just step aside is highly doubtful. The sitting President has a power base that will be out of a job when he leaves and they will do anything to stay in power.

    And as for the US sending troops.. pathetic idea. You dont have the troops left over to do jack **** with all the wars you are in. Not to mention the US has not sent troops into Africa since forever. If any non African forces will go in then it will be the French since they already are there and it is a former colony.
    PeteEU

  4. #34
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You do know that the country just came out of a civil war between the two sides right? Thinking that one side will just step aside is highly doubtful. The sitting President has a power base that will be out of a job when he leaves and they will do anything to stay in power.
    Sending troops into Cote D'Ivoire could possibly prevent a civil war, but ultimately there are no guarantees. If Gbagbo wants a civil war he can surely get one.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    And as for the US sending troops.. pathetic idea. You dont have the troops left over to do jack **** with all the wars you are in. Not to mention the US has not sent troops into Africa since forever. If any non African forces will go in then it will be the French since they already are there and it is a former colony.
    I don't give a damn what country does it, as long as someone with the military capability and the willingness to fire if necessary does it. I suggest considering the basic policy suggestion, instead of foaming at the mouth because you saw the words "United States" and "military intervention" in the same paragraph.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-29-10 at 05:28 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  5. #35
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,461

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You do know that the country just came out of a civil war between the two sides right? Thinking that one side will just step aside is highly doubtful. The sitting President has a power base that will be out of a job when he leaves and they will do anything to stay in power.

    And as for the US sending troops.. pathetic idea. You dont have the troops left over to do jack **** with all the wars you are in. Not to mention the US has not sent troops into Africa since forever. If any non African forces will go in then it will be the French since they already are there and it is a former colony.
    The French Foreign Legion, not really The French per se.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #36
    Dispenser of Negativity
    Cold Highway's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Newburgh, New York and World 8: Dark Land
    Last Seen
    12-24-12 @ 11:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    9,596
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then whose job is it? Nations that are stuck in poverty traps (of which Cote D'Ivoire is a textbook example) are going to continue to be poor and dysfunctional until they are able to break free of those traps. That affects everyone, not just the people stuck in the misery of the country itself.
    Really how is it affecting us right now?


    What would that accomplish? People would still view it as American involvement...but without the benefits, efficiency, and ease with which the US military could topple the Gbagbo junta.
    I didnt say if it would accomplish anything or not. Im just saying those who want the US to the police of the world should go into these conflicts themselves with their own money. Let them be mercenaries and as we have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan toppling authoritarian governments and its aftermath arent cakewalks.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

  7. #37
    Sage
    Gill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Derby City
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 10:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    8,686

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    For a point of comparison, Cote D'Ivoire spends about $94 million annually on its military. The city of Louisville, Kentucky spends about $152 million annually on its police force. So imagine that the mayor of Louisville seceded and declared himself emperor, and the US military went in to intervene. How long do you think the conflict between the US military and the Louisville police force (most of whom wouldn't even want to fight) would last?

    It's laughable, and for good reason. That's the level of resistance we'd be likely to encounter in Cote D'Ivoire if we intervened.
    How did you know we had an emperor as mayor here ???? But don't worry, mayor for life, Jerry Abramson is finally stepping down to run for statewide office.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  8. #38
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sending troops into Cote D'Ivoire could possibly prevent a civil war, but ultimately there are no guarantees. If Gbagbo wants a civil war he can surely get one.
    There are already troops there.

    I don't give a damn what country does it, as long as someone with the military capability and the willingness to fire if necessary does it. I suggest considering the basic policy suggestion, instead of foaming at the mouth because you saw the words "United States" and "military intervention" in the same paragraph.
    Sorry but you stated the US and not other countries and my point stands. The US has never gone into Africa and is over stretched as it is. On top of that, there are already many thousands of troops in the country overseeing the ceasefire of the last civil war. Also France has big links to the country and possibly a base there if not a large amount of troops. It was not long ago that the French wtfpawned some rebels who fired on them .. was all over the news.
    PeteEU

  9. #39
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,305

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The United States should send troops into Cote D'Ivoire if necessary. It would cost us virtually nothing, the troops wouldn't have to be there more than a couple months, and they would have a clear mission: to help establish the legitimately elected government. This is exactly the kind of situation where we should be more willing to deploy our military.
    Wait, I thought we weren't the world's policeman?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #40
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: rmed and ready for Ivorian intervention?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The French Foreign Legion, not really The French per se.
    Yes they are. For one, the commanders are all French citizens, the language spoken is French. The members can apply for French citizenship after 3 years of service also.

    There are also many non US citizens serving in the US armed forces, does that mean under your definition that the US armed forces are not American?
    PeteEU

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •