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Thread: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video


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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post

    If you don't like that the thread is here, then by all means use your report function, and inform a mod with the capability to make that decission. It makes no difference to me. I didn't see the other thread because I generally stay in this section.....


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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Yes...just like the KGB

    Give me a break. This is getting ridiculous and just highlights, yet again, that all reason, logic, and common sense get thrown out the window because woohoo, we get to ream the TSA.

    If a contractor with the Secret Service went onto youtube posting what he believed were security flaws with the capital building, do you think it'd be "KGB"-like to revoke his security clearance?

    If a contractor for the military went onto youtube posting what he believed were security flaws at Gitmo, do you think it'd be horribly authoratarian for the government to revoke his security clearance?

    All we have to work with is the evidence as is presented at the moment, which is he went to Youtube, not that he reported it to anyone that could actually address or deal with the supposed issues.

    Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest that somehow an agency is in the wrong for revoking the persons status for violating the their terms of agreement or their security clearance. For example, FFDO's are expected and agreed to remain anonymous, with their position being something that is not shared with others. This flies in the face of what this man was doing.

    Seriously, if this was any other scenario of some law enforcement branch (And by the way your story reads, this is more focused on FAMS then it is on TSA) of government the majority of people screaming about this would be silent or probably defending it. But because its TSA and everyone on all sides loves to demonize and over react with them all realistic observation is thrown out the window.

    IF they are real security flaws is it bad and should it be addressed? Absolutely. But there are correct ways to go about submitting and potentially fixing those flaws, and youtube isn't it.

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes...just like the KGB

    Give me a break. This is getting ridiculous and just highlights, yet again, that all reason, logic, and common sense get thrown out the window because woohoo, we get to ream the TSA.

    If a contractor with the Secret Service went onto youtube posting what he believed were security flaws with the capital building, do you think it'd be "KGB"-like to revoke his security clearance?

    If a contractor for the military went onto youtube posting what he believed were security flaws at Gitmo, do you think it'd be horribly authoratarian for the government to revoke his security clearance?

    All we have to work with is the evidence as is presented at the moment, which is he went to Youtube, not that he reported it to anyone that could actually address or deal with the supposed issues.

    Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest that somehow an agency is in the wrong for revoking the persons status for violating the their terms of agreement or their security clearance. For example, FFDO's are expected and agreed to remain anonymous, with their position being something that is not shared with others. This flies in the face of what this man was doing.

    Seriously, if this was any other scenario of some law enforcement branch (And by the way your story reads, this is more focused on FAMS then it is on TSA) of government the majority of people screaming about this would be silent or probably defending it. But because its TSA and everyone on all sides loves to demonize and over react with them all realistic observation is thrown out the window.

    IF they are real security flaws is it bad and should it be addressed? Absolutely. But there are correct ways to go about submitting and potentially fixing those flaws, and youtube isn't it.

    Ok, so let's say I grant you that this pilot went straight to youtube without using appropriate channels to remedy this failure on TSA's part. Then I am also sure you wouldn't see the 6 officers, local and Federal that showed up to this mans house to retrieve not only his issued service revolver, but his personal gun, and CC permit as well, as anything over the top? Especially when the pilot and his lawyer were in contact to come to them to hand over the service revolver.

    And also, I am positive that this wouldn't have any chilling effect on others that may see holes in TSA operations right?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, so let's say I grant you that this pilot went straight to youtube without using appropriate channels to remedy this failure on TSA's part. Then I am also sure you wouldn't see the 6 officers, local and Federal that showed up to this mans house to retrieve not only his issued service revolver, but his personal gun, and CC permit as well, as anything over the top? Especially when the pilot and his lawyer were in contact to come to them to hand over the service revolver.
    I'll speak to what I'm most familiar with first. I don't see anything "over the top" about the FAMs coming and confiscating his weapon. It was government issued, he's in the midst of an investigation, its in their best interest to remove their property in an expedient fashion. Its not unusual for law enforcement to act in teams, especially with regards to FAMs. Its also not unusual or "chilling" for Federal agents to contact local authorities when going into their jurisdiction to get them to come along.

    In regards to the state temporarily revoking his CC permit, I don't know if that's excessive. I don't have much experience with state CC permits, especially in California, so am not aware of what the protocols would be so am not going to try and comment on it.

    I also see nothing in your article suggesting that his personal firearms were confiscated. Not sure where you're getting that from. If it was, then yes, I do think that would be excessive.

    And also, I am positive that this wouldn't have any chilling effect on others that may see holes in TSA operations right?
    I'm sure it would have a "chilling" effect on those that would choose to violate their security clearance, violate the terms of their positions as FFDO's, and violate protocols with regards to "whistleblowing"...which this can barely even be labeled under.

    Having a chilling effect on people doing things the right way? No, I don't.

    Also...funny bits of info.

    Many of the things that this individual focused on are not things that the TSA has the dominion over. Now, I'm sure they COULD have it. But I'm sure it would also cause additional issues with travel which are so roundly and continually ALSO used to complain about the TSA. I've worked at a CAT-X airport, and the security of various doors, the enormous amount of workers, etc, aren't under TSA's umbrella. So while people bitch about the cost of the TSA and the impact it has on slowing down flying, they're also going to bitch about it NOT spending more money and NOT slowing down more traffic by focusing on the portoins that are believed to be most important?

    Could it possibly be that there are far, far more intelligent, knowledgable, and experienced individuals that have made assessments on many of the issues this genius believes to be "holes" and came to a different conclussion based on a more full view of the information...but this yahoo thinks he's hot **** by having a smattering of additional information than the average person and thus is some kind of expert that he needs to "expose" it on youtube.

    The guy violated his contractual agreements, broke regulations, and basically acted like an attention seeking drama queen for him being punished for doing something he knew was wrong. Sorry if I don't find that "chilling". Sorry if I also think you're entirely dishonest and completely agenda driven in your over reaction to this. Again, if this was the FBI, military, CIA, or any other law enforcement agency other than the FAM service which happens to fall under TSA I have no doubt you'd be sitting there chiding anyone for trying to protect such a slimey, leaking, traitorous anti-american individual who is no doubt a liberal.

    Seriously, bring forth legitimate issues and its fine. There's definitely problems with the TSA...its far from a perfect organizations. But so often the desire and lust to just ream them over the coals causes so much exaggeration, overreaction, and hyperbole that its hard to take any of it serious. The issues with sterile area access at airports is not a new one....its something that has been talked about for some time, even amongst employees. I remember working as a baggage guy and wondering the same thing as this guy did. At the same time, it has ALWAYS been told to us that there is a balanced trying to be struck between security and efficiency. The amount of threat mixed with the cost of security and efficiency reduction from those points of "weakness" at the moment is not high enough to warrant additional action taken nor is there adequete reason presented to do so. However, at the same time, that fact doesn't need to be broadcast over the internet.

    You can't have it both way. People can't sit here complaining that TSA is too big, too bloated, too costly, too constricting, too time consuming and at the same time demand that it is failing at its job because its not big enough, bloated enough, spending enough, or constricting enough to cover every single solitary potential security issue.

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'll speak to what I'm most familiar with first......

    Let me begin here by just saying, that you seem to not like me much...of that I am indeed troubled.

    But let's take a look at what the track record of going up against the TSA is so far shall we?


    From the news we see a smattering of individuals that either embarrass the TSA by exposing flaws in their procedures, or refuse intrusive searches being personally investigated by these brown shirts, and fined, and harassed. Meanwhile, true experts speak out telling us that we are going about it in the wrong fashion.

    The message I see being sent by governmental orgs like TSA are that anyone questioning what they are doing are going to be the target of harassment...doesn't sound like the America I grew up in.


    j-mac
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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    J-mac, did you read Zyphlin's post? He pointed out that the security "flaws" where not with TSA procedures. Here, let's look at what he said again:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin
    Many of the things that this individual focused on are not things that the TSA has the dominion over. Now, I'm sure they COULD have it. But I'm sure it would also cause additional issues with travel which are so roundly and continually ALSO used to complain about the TSA. I've worked at a CAT-X airport, and the security of various doors, the enormous amount of workers, etc, aren't under TSA's umbrella.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    J-mac, did you read Zyphlin's post? He pointed out that the security "flaws" where not with TSA procedures. Here, let's look at what he said again:
    Yep. Not going to claim to be an export, but I have never heard of the TSA checking the backgrounds, monitoring the work locations, etc of every employee in an airport. I know there are secure locations that you can access with a key card, that I believe the airport manages but its been a while and I'm having a bit of trouble remebering who I went to exactly for it. I remember seeing security at some of these doors occasionally, but typically the security hired by the airport. But to my understanding of it, and again I will admit I may be wrong if someone can provide some kind of factual evidence, I do not believe TSA has the authority and check over all airport employees and every segment of the airport.

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yep. Not going to claim to be an export, but I have never heard of the TSA checking the backgrounds, monitoring the work locations, etc of every employee in an airport. I know there are secure locations that you can access with a key card, that I believe the airport manages but its been a while and I'm having a bit of trouble remebering who I went to exactly for it. I remember seeing security at some of these doors occasionally, but typically the security hired by the airport. But to my understanding of it, and again I will admit I may be wrong if someone can provide some kind of factual evidence, I do not believe TSA has the authority and check over all airport employees and every segment of the airport.

    Maybe this will clear it up?

    History and organization
    Seal when under the Department of TransportationThe TSA was created in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Its first administrator John Magaw was nominated by President Bush on December 10, 2001 and confirmed by the Senate the following January. The agency's proponents, including Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, argued that a single federal agency would better protect air travel than the private companies who operated under contract to single airlines or groups of airlines that used a given terminal facility.

    The organization was charged with developing policies to protect U.S. transportation, especially in airport security and the prevention of aircraft hijacking.

    With state, local, and regional partners, the TSA oversees security for highways, railroads, buses, mass transit systems, pipelines, ports. However, the bulk of the TSA's efforts are in aviation security. The TSA is solely responsible for screening passengers and checked and carry-on baggage at 450 U.S. airports. [5]

    It also works with local police and other law enforcement official to reduce baggage theft in many airports. In Las Vegas in summer 2007, a sting operation caught two airport employees stealing weapons.[6]

    Private screening did not disappear under the TSA, which allows airports to opt out of federal screeners and hire firms to do the job instead. Such firms must still get TSA approval under its Screening Partnership Program (SPP) and follow TSA procedures.[7] Among the U.S. airports with privately operated checkpoints are San Francisco International Airport; Kansas City International Airport; Greater Rochester International Airport; Tupelo Regional Airport; Key West International Airport; and Jackson Hole Airport.[8][9]

    Among the types of TSA employees are:[10]

    Transportation Security Officer: The TSA employs around 45,000 Transportation Security Officers, colloquially known as screeners. They screen people and property and control entry and exit points within an airport. They also watch several areas before and beyond checkpoints.[11][12]


    Transportation Security Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hmmm...Let's see here, Obama's thug Napalintano can search your groin, and the crotch of your 12 year old daughter, but don't blow the whistle on security holes on them....They then "punish" you....Nooooo, we are free here.

    In other TSA news....

    This is getting out of control. Shouldn't 'Big Sis' resign? I think she should, and then maybe we can get back to some sense of sanity, and not this authoritarian crack down of US citizens Obama has put in place through his thug in control of HSA.

    j-mac
    What do you think this is AMERICA?!?!?!

    The founding fathers fought and died so your wife and children can get groped at the airport.

    They also fought and died so that whistleblowers receive the full force of the law in repercussion.

    Terrorism: Can you really stop a bomber by asking, 'Are you terrorist?' | Mail Online

    What do you think this is a free country??? We gave up our rights so that the terrorists wouldn't attack us anymore.

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