• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

washunut said:
It is called hedgeing your bets. Oil is not running out for a very long time, but the real question is will it be able to produce more and more as the world's economies grow. The sad part is we are sitting on about 100 years of nat gas, but don't seem interested in using it. In all probability you will see China buy up those assets and ship it via liquified nat gas.
Click to expand...

I didn't say we would be running out of oil. What I, and all of the experts, including the Pentagon, are saying is that it is likely we will run out of cheap oil in a few more years, perhaps as soon as 2015. It doesn't mean we will run out of oil, what it means is that consumption will outstrip production causing possible sharp price increases. We can already see the prices going up, and this is just leading up to peak oil.

China and Saudi Arabia think long-term, unlike the US. They understand what peak oil will mean to countries caught unprepared to grow in a non-oil based economy once we pass world peak oil in a couple more years.
 
drz-400 said:
Thats already going on, at least in canada. I saw that petrochina is trying to get a $5+ billion deal with Encana to get a stake in a large nat gas reserve in british columbia and alberta. Not that I see anything wrong with that. We use quite a bit of nat gas for heating and electricity. Its not popular in cars yet, but they do have some filling stations for them. It is cheaper per gallon, but I think you get worse mpg's, that and it is hard to find a place to fill up!

CNG stations and Prices for the US, Canada and Europe
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with what the Chinese are doing, I was just pointing out that they are making a lot of different energy bets. I think they even made an investment in a US company, chesepeak energy.

Nat Gas is materially cheaper than oil on a MPG basis. It is also cleaner. So Obama's new position is to tax companies more for drilling in the US while oil prices soar. Sometimes you just make this stuff up.

You are correct we do not have much of an infrastructure you filling cars and trucks with nat gas. How much better off would the country have been if some of the stimulus was spent to build out that infrastructure. It would have created an whole new industry in the country.
 
Catawba said:
I didn't say we would be running out of oil. What I, and all of the experts, including the Pentagon, are saying is that it is likely we will run out of cheap oil in a few more years, perhaps as soon as 2015. It doesn't mean we will run out of oil, what it means is that consumption will outstrip production causing possible sharp price increases. We can already see the prices going up, and this is just leading up to peak oil.

China and Saudi Arabia think long-term, unlike the US. They understand what peak oil will mean to countries caught unprepared to grow in a non-oil based economy once we pass world peak oil in a couple more years.
Click to expand...

If people knew for sure what your post says then we should all stop wasting time posting on this site and spend out time figuring out how to invest in something that is sure to increase in value.

The reality is no one knows for certain anything like what you just said. One easy example. How much oil is Iraq exporting daily these days. Something like 1-2 million barrels a day. When they get their act together this can/will go to 5-7 million bbd. How much additional oil will come out of the canadian oil shale, and similar fields in the U.S.

As far as oil spiking now, didn't Obama just send all his federal agencies to find out which speculators are ripping us off? Maybe you should send him a note on peak oil.
 
Catawba said:
The administration we elected in 08 has committed more funding for nuclear power than any other administration in our history. It it is going to take nuclear, solar, wind, and biofuels altogether to replace our dependency on affordable oil when it runs out in a couple more years. See the warning by the US military last year, they warned it could happen as soon as 2015.

Tell me something, why do you think China and Saudi Arabia are investing so much into wind and solar technology?
Click to expand...

How many nuclear power plants are being built?
 
washunut said:
Nat Gas is materially cheaper than oil on a MPG basis. It is also cleaner. So Obama's new position is to tax companies more for drilling in the US while oil prices soar. Sometimes you just make this stuff up.
Click to expand...

I saw the other day that Transcanada has been trying for some time to get an oil pipeline to go across the US. Basically it would make a path from Cushing OK to the gulf. Its called the Keystone XL pipeline.This would do a lot to get rid of the huge spread between the WTI in cushing and Brent in Europe, but it has been held up by the EPA forever. Apparently several members of congress petitioned against it on the grounds that it would cause greenhouse gas emissions to jump. The irony of it is, now because of the huge spread in prices it is profitable to ship it via rail and truck. As if that does not emit and greenhouse gases...
 
Catawba said:
I didn't say we would be running out of oil. What I, and all of the experts, including the Pentagon, are saying is that it is likely we will run out of cheap oil in a few more years, perhaps as soon as 2015. It doesn't mean we will run out of oil, what it means is that consumption will outstrip production causing possible sharp price increases. We can already see the prices going up, and this is just leading up to peak oil.

China and Saudi Arabia think long-term, unlike the US. They understand what peak oil will mean to countries caught unprepared to grow in a non-oil based economy once we pass world peak oil in a couple more years.
Click to expand...

What cheap oil? Have you checked the price lately?
 
washunut said:
If people knew for sure what your post says then we should all stop wasting time posting on this site and spend out time figuring out how to invest in something that is sure to increase in value.
Click to expand...

Many of us have, I built my own passive solar home in 1984, bought the first hybrid car realeased in this country, the Honday Insight - 70 mpg., and recently purchased a 1.5 KW solar cell panel system for electrical production to supply my electrical needs. China now leads the world in investment in clean energy. Saudia Arabia is also investing heavily into clean energy.

The reality is no one knows for certain anything like what you just said.
Click to expand...

All of the world's experts agree we are approahing peak oil. Cheney had a whole task force of experts that attested to it.


One easy example. How much oil is Iraq exporting daily these days. Something like 1-2 million barrels a day. When they get their act together this can/will go to 5-7 million bbd.
Click to expand...

Our war for oil in Iraq is the only reason we are not already at peak oil. And we had to kill thousands of innocent people to be able to takeover control to make possilble for big oil to exploit. Now add that cost to what you are paying at the pump.

How much additional oil will come out of the canadian oil shale, and similar fields in the U.S.
Click to expand...

Peak oil mean the end of cheap oil. Shale oil, or oil sands will not affect when we reach peak oil as it is not cheap to either get out or refine. It takes almost as much energy in the extraction, resource demands, and refining costs as it produces.

As far as oil spiking now, didn't Obama just send all his federal agencies to find out which speculators are ripping us off? Maybe you should send him a note on peak oil.
Click to expand...

Why, I have no doubt the speculators are making money hand over fist over fist and are merely compounding the increased prices brought about by supply problems and uncertainties.

The GOP deregulated the speculators which allowed the creation of ENRON, and greater freedom for speculators to price gouge commodity prices. How's that deregulation worked out for us?
 
ptif219 said:
What cheap oil? Have you checked the price lately?
Click to expand...

Exactly my point, and that's for just approaching peak oil. Think what the price will be like when get there in a couple more years!!! :sun
 
drz-400 said:
I saw the other day that Transcanada has been trying for some time to get an oil pipeline to go across the US. Basically it would make a path from Cushing OK to the gulf. Its called the Keystone XL pipeline.This would do a lot to get rid of the huge spread between the WTI in cushing and Brent in Europe, but it has been held up by the EPA forever. Apparently several members of congress petitioned against it on the grounds that it would cause greenhouse gas emissions to jump. The irony of it is, now because of the huge spread in prices it is profitable to ship it via rail and truck. As if that does not emit and greenhouse gases...
Click to expand...

You can't make up how stupid this congress is.
 
Catawba said:
Exactly my point, and that's for just approaching peak oil. Think what the price will be like when get there in a couple more years!!! :sun
Click to expand...

You sound like Trump, another conspiracy theory!
 
ptif219 said:
Oil prices are not from peak oil.
Click to expand...

j-mac said:
Lies.

j-mac
Click to expand...

washunut said:
You sound like Trump, another conspiracy theory!
Click to expand...

I have referenced below expert documentation of approaching world peak oil:

STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES
FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
*
Report of an Independent Task Force
Sponsored by the
James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy of Rice University
and the
Council on Foreign Relations


"That Americans face long-term situations such as frequent sporadic shortages of energy, energy price volatility, and higher energy prices is not the fault of President Bush. The failure to fashion a workable energy policy rests at the feet of both Democrats and Republicans. Both major political parties allowed energy policy to drift despite its centrality to America’s domestic economy and to national security. Energy policy was permitted to drift even though oil price spikes preceded virtually every American recession since the late 1940s. The American people must know about this situation and be told as well that there are no easy or quick solutions to today’s energy problems. The president has to begin educating the public about this reality and start building a broad base of popular support for the hard policy choices ahead."

"If economic growth continues, price spikes and supply shortages could become widespread recurring events challenging expectations of free energy and making the United States appear more similar to a poor developing country."

"As it is, national solutions alone cannot work. Politicians still speak of U.S. energy independence, while the United States is importing more than half of its oil supplies and may soon for the first time become reliant on sources outside North America for substantial amounts of natural gas. More flexible environmental regulation and opening of more federal lands to drilling might slow but cannot stop this process. Dependence is so incredibly large, and growing so inexorably, that national autonomy is simply not a viable goal. In the global economy, it may not even be a desirable one."
STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES

"The US military has warned that surplus oil production capacity could disappear within two years and there could be serious shortages by 2015 with a significant economic and political impact."
US military warns oil output may dip causing massive shortages by 2015 | Business | The Guardian


What experts do you refererence that dispute we are approaching world peak oil?
 
Catawba said:
I have referenced below expert documentation of approaching world peak oil:

STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES
FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
*
Report of an Independent Task Force
Sponsored by the
James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy of Rice University
and the
Council on Foreign Relations


"That Americans face long-term situations such as frequent sporadic shortages of energy, energy price volatility, and higher energy prices is not the fault of President Bush. The failure to fashion a workable energy policy rests at the feet of both Democrats and Republicans. Both major political parties allowed energy policy to drift despite its centrality to America’s domestic economy and to national security. Energy policy was permitted to drift even though oil price spikes preceded virtually every American recession since the late 1940s. The American people must know about this situation and be told as well that there are no easy or quick solutions to today’s energy problems. The president has to begin educating the public about this reality and start building a broad base of popular support for the hard policy choices ahead."

"If economic growth continues, price spikes and supply shortages could become widespread recurring events challenging expectations of free energy and making the United States appear more similar to a poor developing country."

"As it is, national solutions alone cannot work. Politicians still speak of U.S. energy independence, while the United States is importing more than half of its oil supplies and may soon for the first time become reliant on sources outside North America for substantial amounts of natural gas. More flexible environmental regulation and opening of more federal lands to drilling might slow but cannot stop this process. Dependence is so incredibly large, and growing so inexorably, that national autonomy is simply not a viable goal. In the global economy, it may not even be a desirable one."
STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES

"The US military has warned that surplus oil production capacity could disappear within two years and there could be serious shortages by 2015 with a significant economic and political impact."
US military warns oil output may dip causing massive shortages by 2015 | Business | The Guardian


What experts do you refererence that dispute we are approaching world peak oil?
Click to expand...

Oil prices are not caused by your conspiracy

Why Are Gas Prices Are So High - What Makes Gas Prices High
 
Catawba said:
I have referenced below expert documentation of approaching world peak oil:

STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES
FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
*
Report of an Independent Task Force
Sponsored by the
James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy of Rice University
and the
Council on Foreign Relations


"That Americans face long-term situations such as frequent sporadic shortages of energy, energy price volatility, and higher energy prices is not the fault of President Bush. The failure to fashion a workable energy policy rests at the feet of both Democrats and Republicans. Both major political parties allowed energy policy to drift despite its centrality to America’s domestic economy and to national security. Energy policy was permitted to drift even though oil price spikes preceded virtually every American recession since the late 1940s. The American people must know about this situation and be told as well that there are no easy or quick solutions to today’s energy problems. The president has to begin educating the public about this reality and start building a broad base of popular support for the hard policy choices ahead."

"If economic growth continues, price spikes and supply shortages could become widespread recurring events challenging expectations of free energy and making the United States appear more similar to a poor developing country."

"As it is, national solutions alone cannot work. Politicians still speak of U.S. energy independence, while the United States is importing more than half of its oil supplies and may soon for the first time become reliant on sources outside North America for substantial amounts of natural gas. More flexible environmental regulation and opening of more federal lands to drilling might slow but cannot stop this process. Dependence is so incredibly large, and growing so inexorably, that national autonomy is simply not a viable goal. In the global economy, it may not even be a desirable one."
STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES

"The US military has warned that surplus oil production capacity could disappear within two years and there could be serious shortages by 2015 with a significant economic and political impact."
US military warns oil output may dip causing massive shortages by 2015 | Business | The Guardian


What experts do you refererence that dispute we are approaching world peak oil?
Click to expand...

How about the finding by Hess Oil just today that an area they have been exploring has just found it holds 3 billion barrels of oil. Or Boone Pickens on TV this morning talking about the amount of nat gas we have in the U.S. which he estimates at 7 QUADRILLION BTUs. He says the low side others have estimated at 3 Quadrillion. Somewhere between 50-100 year supply of natural gas. Just a couple of examples. Why do you think nat gas is selling at such a low price.
 
washunut said:
How about the finding by Hess Oil just today that an area they have been exploring has just found it holds 3 billion barrels of oil. Or Boone Pickens on TV this morning talking about the amount of nat gas we have in the U.S. which he estimates at 7 QUADRILLION BTUs. He says the low side others have estimated at 3 Quadrillion. Somewhere between 50-100 year supply of natural gas. Just a couple of examples. Why do you think nat gas is selling at such a low price.
Click to expand...

3 billion barrels will not have any effect on peak oil, and it looks like Hess oil agrees with the other experts on peak oil:

“As demand grows in the next decade, we will not have the oil production capacity we will need to meet demand,” Chief Executive Officer John B. Hess said in a speech at CERAWeek, a Houston conference held by IHS Cambridge Energy Research Associates. “The $140-per-barrel oil price of three years ago was not an aberration — it was a warning."
Head of Hess oil sees global energy crisis ahead, unless steps are taken now | projo.com | The Providence Journal projoCars |

"The U.S. should consider raising federal gasoline taxes to $1 a gallon and boosting average fuel economy to 50 miles a gallon to help avert a global energy crisis, the head of oil company Hess Corp. said.

Natural gas is also not a factor in peak oil.

Is this your entire case to present against the experts who have determined we are approaching peak oil?
 
Catawba said:
From your article:

"Why Are Gas Prices So High?:
The main reason for high gas prices are high crude oil prices."

Thanks! :sun
Click to expand...

Why do you take it out of context?

Oil prices normally rise when demand is greater than supply. However, in 2011, high oil prices were caused by investors' fears about unrest in Libya and Egypt. Even before that, oil prices were steadily rising, as commodities traders took bet against a declining dollar, and bought gold and futures contracts. These are agreements to buy or sell oil at a specific date in the future at a specific price. Commodities traders can create a self-fulfilling prophecy by bidding up oil futures prices. Once this starts, it can create an asset bubble.
 
ptif219 said:
Why do you take it out of context?

Oil prices normally rise when demand is greater than supply. However, in 2011, high oil prices were caused by investors' fears about unrest in Libya and Egypt. Even before that, oil prices were steadily rising, as commodities traders took bet against a declining dollar, and bought gold and futures contracts. These are agreements to buy or sell oil at a specific date in the future at a specific price. Commodities traders can create a self-fulfilling prophecy by bidding up oil futures prices. Once this starts, it can create an asset bubble.
Click to expand...

Yep, when supplies are low, the slighest little thing can cause prices to go up. That is what approaching peak oil looks like. Like your article states, "Like most of the things you buy, oil prices are affected by supply and demand."

There are many factors that can create spikes in prices sure, like commodity traders and M.E. unrest, but the underlying main factor is the demand approaching the level of supply.

Your article concludes: "The only real way to lower gas prices is to lower demand for gas and oil over a long period of time. This would work, since the U.S. consumes 25% of the world's oil. This has increased over the last 20 years, from 15 million barrels per day (bpd) to 20.7 million bpd. A concerted effort might convince commodities traders, who have driven oil prices up 25% in the first quarter of 2008, that oil was a bad investment, thus allowing oil prices to return to pre-bubble levels. "
 
Catawba said:
"The U.S. should consider raising federal gasoline taxes to $1 a gallon and boosting average fuel economy to 50 miles a gallon to help avert a global energy crisis, the head of oil company Hess Corp. said.
Click to expand...

fine, but when do you expect barack the slasher to call harry

and what's pryor gonna say, casey, brown, stabenow, conrad...

they're gonna be a problem, dontcha think

oh well, party on, class warrior
 
The Prof said:
fine, but when do you expect barack the slasher to call harry

and what's pryor gonna say, casey, brown, stabenow, conrad...

they're gonna be a problem, dontcha think

oh well, party on, class warrior
Click to expand...


Do you have anything to respond with that is relevant to the discussion, or is inane off-topic babble all you can come up with?
 
Catawba said:
Yep, when supplies are low, the slighest little thing can cause prices to go up. That is what approaching peak oil looks like. Like your article states, "Like most of the things you buy, oil prices are affected by supply and demand."

There are many factors that can create spikes in prices sure, like commodity traders and M.E. unrest, but the underlying main factor is the demand approaching the level of supply.

Your article concludes: "The only real way to lower gas prices is to lower demand for gas and oil over a long period of time. This would work, since the U.S. consumes 25% of the world's oil. This has increased over the last 20 years, from 15 million barrels per day (bpd) to 20.7 million bpd. A concerted effort might convince commodities traders, who have driven oil prices up 25% in the first quarter of 2008, that oil was a bad investment, thus allowing oil prices to return to pre-bubble levels. "
Click to expand...

No it is about how much storage is available. Supply and demand is about what is ready to use not what is still in the ground.

https://www.cleantech.com/news/4545/schwartz-peak-oil
 
Catawba said:
Do you have anything to respond with that is relevant to the discussion
Click to expand...

go ahead and raise those taxes a buck a gallon, warrior

we're passed peak oil, or we're approaching peak oil, or we're pulling out of iraq this year (or are we?)...

who needs a senate, who needs a house, when you got james baker and the pentagon and the saudis and the chinese...

just post quick reply

reality is inane
 
The Prof said:
go ahead and raise those taxes a buck a gallon, warrior
Click to expand...

Please link the bill that proposes a "buck a gallon" tax.

we're passed peak oil, or we're approaching peak oil,
Click to expand...

According to the experts, we are approaching peak oil.


or we're pulling out of iraq this year (or are we?)...
Click to expand...

We have agreed in writing with the Iraqis to have all military troops out of Iraq by the end of the year.

who needs a senate, who needs a house, when you got james baker and the pentagon and the saudis and the chinese...
Click to expand...

You probably intended a point in that statement but you will have to refashion it before anyone knows what it is.


reality is inane
Click to expand...

Great outlook you have there! :sun

Who's your pick for our next leader to make it all better?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom