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Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

From Utah Bill's link post #999:

In 1982 - 301 operable oil refineries processing 17.9 million barrels of oil per day.
Today - 149 refineries processing 17.4 million barrels.


T
How do you think they got the same output with fewer physical facilities. Expansion and efficiency. This began in the '80s by shutting down facilities that were incapable of being upgraded for downstream processing and/or 'debottlenecking' or were unable to meet environmental requirements or commercial requirements while expanding and making the remaining facilities more efficient.

Over that time, the facility I worked for doubled it's unleaded gasoline production and just before I left they added a new crude still, a new coker and a sulphur plant. Other companies were doing the same thing. No new refineries were built, but capacity kept up with demand.

The 'no new refineries built since..', is nothing but a 'fits on a bumper sticker talking point' championed by the 'drill baby drill' crowd.

In refining, except in rare instances, the run doesn't exceed capacity.

This link is to a graph to explain what I'm talking about. Although it only goes up to 2004, it also go back to 1973 to show the history of the U.S. having the capacity to process the crude it needs.

U.S. Refining Capacity, Crude Runs, and Utilization Rate

The process to build a new refinery is costly and time consuming. Much of the problem is environmentalists tie it up in court and the permits process is time consuming and expensive

CorpWatch*:*US: No New Refineries in 29 Years
 
Well one thing most people don't realize is most countries, the price of gas is far more than what ours is due to their full reliance on getting it from OPEC countries and these countries regulate. Our prices are driven up by OPEC cost as a way to stay competitive and to me that is very annoying. If you look at any country that gets all of their oil from their own country, their gas prices are dramatically lower, some, Saudi Arabia for example pay $1USD or less per gallon. Since we have a mix of foreign and domestic I think that is what still keeps us down below the international average for gas prices. You also have to consider that what has happened in Japan, and the recent uprisings in the Middle East make the market nervous and they will of course, artificially inflate the price.

I think that it should be a goal of any president for as long as I live to completely eliminate the need for oil from foreign country, and reduce our overall dependency of it as well. A bad side effect of that of course, is less money to be made so these companies will raise the prices of the gas with cars that get 50MPG coming down the line, and several cars within the next 5 years won't even depend on gas.

We don't get most of our oil from OPEC
 
That was our goal in the 70's. We had a plan to make us free from foreign oil dependence. That plan was scrapped by Reagan as soon as he came into office, and we passed peak oil in this country in 1971. This administration has provided more funding for development of alternatives to foreign oil than any other in history. We actually have someone now as the head of the energy department that is a scientist and not a politician. There is much to be hopeful about but we must realize we are starting 40 years later than we should have. Now that we are facing World peak oil in the next few years, we had better learn to adapt quickly, or it is going to be a very bumpy ride.

I would disagree since no new refineries since 1976
 
Nope, but I am smarter than a trailer park Republican. How about you?



Nope, but I do have a bicycle and two feet. How about you?

I am smarter. I have a Harley Davidson annd burn ethanol free. Ethanol lowers MPG which meanns you use more gas. I thought you wanted us to use less

Ethanol

E10 (gasohol)

E10 (also called “gasohol”) is a blend of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline sold in many parts of the country. All auto manufacturers approve the use of blends of 10% ethanol or less in their gasoline vehicles. However, vehicles will typically go 3–4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 than on straight gasoline.1
 
My carbon footprint is a fraction of yours which means that I both spend less money on energy than you do and I better protect the environment for future generations. I leave it to others to determine if that is wise or foolish.

Sorry ethanol that is used cost more and lowers MPG so you are using more because of the EPA and enviromentalists that force us to use it
 
you mean figment?

No, I do not mean figment. "Figment of the imagination" would require quotes, no quotes. A filament is the tungsten wire in light bulbs that radiates light in the visible spectrum when heated by an electric current. You've seen light bulbs over people's heads to show a bright new idea. Ergo, filament of the imagination. Original quote by DaveFagan
 
No, I do not mean figment. "Figment of the imagination" would require quotes, no quotes. A filament is the tungsten wire in light bulbs that radiates light in the visible spectrum when heated by an electric current. You've seen light bulbs over people's heads to show a bright new idea. Ergo, filament of the imagination. Original quote by DaveFagan

Original, perhaps.....might be a good reason for that...:2razz:
 
I would disagree since no new refineries since 1976

You disagree with what? There have been no new refinieries since 1976 because we passed peak oil in this country in 1971. There has been no need for new refineries.
 
commies? pinkos? you must be really OLD....
back to oil at more than $90....we are all gonna pay the price at the pump, like it or not....
there isn't much we can do about it.


Yes, we all know it is those evil speculators, and corporate greed mongers that are just sucking the American people dry at Obama's created worst economy since his mentor Carter. Oh, shoot! Wait a minute....Seems to me that in '08 when demo's needed sound bytes, oil at $146 a barrel, and regular gas at the pump in DC was some where around $4.15 per gal. we saw nightly familiar faces like Schmucky Shumer, Maxine 'Socialist' Waters, and Nancy 'botox' Pelosi in front of the cameras pressing the hype that Bush was personally profiting off these high prices. Hmmm...Not a peep now, why?

Also, at that time, Bush came out and announced that he was going to start exploration for our own resources, and guess what happened? The price fell to $1.86 per gal, at the pump...Imagine that....Then so unfortunate, we got Mr. "Energy prices will necessarily skyrocket" in office and the lies began.

Allensky tactics, and ignorant promoting of 40 year old fear mongering will not save you libs now. Temps on average are falling, just visit the great white north these days, I bet they want you to drive more, bigger carbon footprints....Warmer weather....Also, with the forcast shortage in the growing sector, we may need some greenhouse effect. You do know carbon is plant food right?

Ah well, don't think about it too hard just buy the hype that backs your arguments, and carry on....It won't matter when we crumble under Obama's plan anyway.


j-mac
 
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I am smarter. I have a Harley Davidson annd burn ethanol free. Ethanol lowers MPG which meanns you use more gas. I thought you wanted us to use less

My hybrid gets better mileage than your Harley and it was designed to burn ethynol (but I'm sure the oil companies appreciate the extra you chip in at the pump), and my energy bills for heating and cooling my passive solar house is about 40% of the costs for a conventional home.
 
Seems maybe you should explain what a "trailer park Republican" is, since you coined the phrase.


j-mac

LOL! I would love to take credit for coining that term, but alas, it has been a well known voting demograpic in the South for years:

trailerparkrepublican.jpg
 
LOL! I would love to take credit for coining that term, but alas, it has been a well known voting demograpic in the South for years:


You really are an offensive one aren't you? Anyway, couldn't be that the man likes freedoms, and has the oppritunity to make more in a free market. Nah, just your offensive generalizations.

j-mac
 
You really are an offensive one aren't you? Anyway, couldn't be that the man likes freedoms, and has the oppritunity to make more in a free market. Nah, just your offensive generalizations.

j-mac

I speak the truth without pulling punches if that is what you mean. Do you mean he has the freedom to get poorer while those he votes for get richer? If he had the opportunity to make more in the free market he wouldn't be a trailer park republican now would he?
 
LOL! I would love to take credit for coining that term, but alas, it has been a well known voting demograpic in the South for years:

trailerparkrepublican.jpg

That dude probably goes to work everyday to pay the taxes that you insist that everybody pay.

Nice attack on the working class.
 
Yes, we all know it is those evil speculators, and corporate greed mongers that are just sucking the American people dry at Obama's created worst economy since his mentor Carter. Oh, shoot! Wait a minute....Seems to me that in '08 when demo's needed sound bytes, oil at $146 a barrel, and regular gas at the pump in DC was some where around $4.15 per gal. we saw nightly familiar faces like Schmucky Shumer, Maxine 'Socialist' Waters, and Nancy 'botox' Pelosi in front of the cameras pressing the hype that Bush was personally profiting off these high prices. Hmmm...Not a peep now, why?

Also, at that time, Bush came out and announced that he was going to start exploration for our own resources, and guess what happened? The price fell to $1.86 per gal, at the pump...Imagine that....Then so unfortunate, we got Mr. "Energy prices will necessarily skyrocket" in office and the lies began.

Allensky tactics, and ignorant promoting of 40 year old fear mongering will not save you libs now. Temps on average are falling, just visit the great white north these days, I bet they want you to drive more, bigger carbon footprints....Warmer weather....Also, with the forcast shortage in the growing sector, we may need some greenhouse effect. You do know carbon is plant food right?

Ah well, don't think about it too hard just buy the hype that backs your arguments, and carry on....It won't matter when we crumble under Obama's plan anyway.


j-mac

The Bush clan are oil people, as is Cheney. You think they didn't make money? Not that I think they planned. GWB isn't that smart, but wait, Cheney is....
We won't crumble. The system is bigger than the Bush clan, bigger than those evil democrats, it will survive.
Carbon is not plant food. Plants are a carbon based life form. Plants take in CO2 and make O2, keeping the carbon. When plants die, they slowly release the carbon as they decay. If they burn, they release the carbon quickly...
Either way, there is supposed to be a balance. TOO MUCH CO2 is just as bad for plants as too much O2 is bad for animals...
back to the atmosphere.
 
That dude probably goes to work everyday to pay the taxes that you insist that everybody pay.

Nice attack on the working class.

If he were voting for the working class, he wouldn't be voting republican who just increase his taxes to provide tax cuts to the rich. They let their fears about guns, gays, god and terrorists overide their economic interest.

That is what makes a trailer park republican so ironic, and so funny!
 
If he were voting for the working class, he wouldn't be voting republican who just increase his taxes to provide tax cuts to the rich. They let their fears about guns, gays, god and terrorists overide their economic interest.

That is what makes a trailer park republican so ironic, and so funny!

you are describing half my siblings.....and it may be ironic, but it ain't all that funny....
 
you are describing half my siblings.....and it may be ironic, but it ain't all that funny....


Ha! Tell me about it, I live in the western part of Virginia! Enough said!

The best book I've read on the subject, by far, is Deer Hunting with Jesus:

"*Starred Review* Bageant mixes a reporter's keen analysis, a storyteller's color, and a native son's love of his roots in this absorbing dissection of America's working poor. Returning to his hometown of Winchester, Virginia, after 30 years of life among the elite journalistic class, Bageant sought to answer the question of why the working poor vote for Republicans in apparent opposition to their own interests. On a broader level, he examines issues of economic class distinctions as he drills below the middle-class claims of his hometown. The reality is that two of five residents do not have high-school diplomas and virtually everyone over 50 has serious health problems in a town—and nation—with poor and failing schools and health systems. Still clinging to illusions of personal responsibility and the vain hope of someday achieving wealth, Winchester's residents fall deeper into debt, farther behind in ambitions beyond working in the local factory—if they're lucky—and, along with their children, subject to the de facto draft of economic conscription. Through the lives of his friends and family, Bageant explores the importance of hunting, religion, and redneck pride in what he describes as the "American hologram." A wise, tender, and acerbic look at life among America's working poor. Bush, Vanessa"
Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved
 
Your blog does not back up your claim that Obama has denied a refinery permit. Your blog refers to air pollution violations of air permits of existing refineries.

"EPA Regional Administrator Al Armendariz said none of the facilities will be required to shut down but all will be required to obtain new permits under stricter guidelines."

Where did I say Obama? This has been on going for over 30 years.

They have been trying to buiold this refinery in Arizona for years and have already spent millions on the permits..

Refinery still moving forward | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
 
You disagree with what? There have been no new refinieries since 1976 because we passed peak oil in this country in 1971. There has been no need for new refineries.

There have been no new refineries because of the expense and red tape for getting permita and because environmentalists try to stop all projects
 
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