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Thread: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

  1. #941
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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    until the price of crude reaches painful levels and remains there...

    hardly a solution

    meanwhile: Senate Democrats urge White House to shelve cap & trade - National Environmental Headlines | Examiner.com
    Your solutions? What are your solutions to get more oil at cheaper prices?
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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    produce energy in this country

    great jobs

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    produce energy in this country

    great jobs
    Who? All oil rigs are drilling or spoken for. You do know oil is a global market, don't you? US oil companies drill all over the world.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    produce energy in this country, president slasher

    don't kill it

    YouTube - SHOCK Audio Unearthed OBAMA TELLS SAN FRANCISCO HE WILL BANKRUPT THE COAL INDUSTRY

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Not sure if you really are asking for potential solutions, but I will give it a go just in case. Let's first start with why corporations are reluctant to make huge long term investments in alternative energy. Oil is a commodity like corn or cottn etc. In the U.S. we have subsidies for farmers putting a floor on the price they will receive when they grow their crops. So they have some certainty within limits on how little they can get paid. It is still a tough business as it relies on all sorts of unknowable things like weather etc, but they do have that floor.

    Oil on the other hand has been left to the open market. A market controlled largely by countries with relatively small populations and huge supplies of this stuff. So for various reasons the price may skyrocket for a while as it did in 2007/8 can't remember to 147 a barrel then plumment to 35 a barrel several months later. No reasonable corporation will spend tens of billions on an investment that may take 5-10 years to complete with that set of variables.

    All that being said, unless the congress can decide to put a floor on oil prices I can't see how private funding can fix this problem. Another way to put a floor under oil, is to put a heavy tax on it like they do in Europe. Nor surprising that they drive smaller cars, use more nuclear than we do, build much more wind etc and drill in the North Sea which seems to be much more of a challenge than the gulf of Mexico.

    People on the right will complain about price controls and taxes, peopleon the left will complain about regressive taxes, plus they don't even like alternative sources of energy. Wind kills many birds, nuclear is unsafe ( though no one has ever died in the U.S. because of it to my knowledge). So here we are, nowhere.

    This president and congress being as partisan as tey are offer little hope for a rational solution that would mean some give and take from both sides.

    Let the debate begin!
    You are making a very common mistake...the issue is OIL as a transportation fuel (its major use) and viable alternatives to it. Electricity has almost nothing to do with the issue. We have ample supplies of electricity and it is easy to "conserve" in the event we have a temporary shortage, just have rolling blackouts.
    Oil, as a transportation fuel, has ONE alternative, natural gas. Pickens has proposed that we convert our trucking industry to NG, a good idea, that will release a good percentage of diesel to be used on our trains, which make very efficient use of diesel.
    But NG is also a home heating fuel, and an electricity generating fuel. This winter showed a problem with NG in states that usually have mild winters, NG plants shut down because the supply pressure dropped from higher than normal use by home heating users.
    The NG infrastructure is still in its infancy. It isn't available everywhere like gasoline and diesel.
    All that said, the big issue is gasoline for the common consumer. We are going to buy it, whatever the price is.
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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    produce energy in this country

    great jobs
    the issue is oil....
    We can't produce oil, we can only drill for it....and we can't drill enough at the rate we are consuming it...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    You are making a very common mistake...the issue is OIL as a transportation fuel (its major use) and viable alternatives to it. Electricity has almost nothing to do with the issue. We have ample supplies of electricity and it is easy to "conserve" in the event we have a temporary shortage, just have rolling blackouts.
    Oil, as a transportation fuel, has ONE alternative, natural gas. Pickens has proposed that we convert our trucking industry to NG, a good idea, that will release a good percentage of diesel to be used on our trains, which make very efficient use of diesel.
    But NG is also a home heating fuel, and an electricity generating fuel. This winter showed a problem with NG in states that usually have mild winters, NG plants shut down because the supply pressure dropped from higher than normal use by home heating users.
    The NG infrastructure is still in its infancy. It isn't available everywhere like gasoline and diesel.
    All that said, the big issue is gasoline for the common consumer. We are going to buy it, whatever the price is.
    My mistake was showing one example of a problem and hoping folks could tie it to others. For example you mention NG which is an alernative to oil for transportation. In order for that to be used effectively but a few key things are that engines on existing trucks would have to be converted to use NG vs oil. Without knowing what the price of oil will be next month,next year etc many will not make that investment. Then you have to set up filling stations around the country, again a very expensive investment. Can't be done without some level of certainty that people willmove to nat gas., then of course toy need more pipeline, more drilling of gas wells.

    Please think through the issue before responding if you care to continue.

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    the issue is oil....
    We can't produce oil, we can only drill for it....and we can't drill enough at the rate we are consuming it...
    Some people refuse to see that it has been 40 years since we could drill as much oil as we consume.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    My mistake was showing one example of a problem and hoping folks could tie it to others. For example you mention NG which is an alernative to oil for transportation. In order for that to be used effectively but a few key things are that engines on existing trucks would have to be converted to use NG vs oil. Without knowing what the price of oil will be next month,next year etc many will not make that investment. Then you have to set up filling stations around the country, again a very expensive investment. Can't be done without some level of certainty that people willmove to nat gas., then of course toy need more pipeline, more drilling of gas wells.

    Please think through the issue before responding if you care to continue.
    Just because I don't mention something in a post doesn't mean I don't know about it...besides, filling stations are part of the "infrastucture" I mentioned.
    NG cannot be safely used by amateurs. You don't want grandma filling her own NG tank. Propane sellers won't let you fill your own BBQ/Grill tank.
    Gaseous fuels are dangerous, which is why it makes sense to limit use to professional drivers who can be trained. Gasoline is a liquid fuel, and won't burn easily, it takes a lot of vaporizaton to get it to ignite. NG has to be compressed to be shipped via truck, a considerable expense. NG pipelines will only be built where there is a large demand for it. Most major cities already have a pipeline that was built when NG was used primarily for heating homes. Many, if not most, existing pipelines are old, and in need of replacement. There is a huge pipeline being built now that runs thru Cache Valley, upper Utah, where we spend our summer months. It will send Wyoming gas to the west coast.
    I coubt that any business worries about the price of oil next month or next year to the extent that they will shut down or limit current operations. It is part of the price of doing business, and they will just pass on the expense to their customers.
    Conversion of trucks is an issue, but the trucking industry can do it. Local trucking where NG is already available would be the easiest place to start. Long haul trucks would have to stick with diesel where the infrastructure doens't exist..

    The PRICE of oil is the smaller part of the issue, the availibility of it is what we should be worried about the most.
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Bill Clinton: Drilling delays 'ridiculous' - Darren Goode - POLITICO.com

    of course, what can one expect from another administration the stated purpose of which is to bankrupt coal

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