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Thread: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Oil production is higher now than it was when Obama took office, and it still doesn't change that we have never had single year that we produced more oil than in 1971.

    That's the fact Jack!


    We also don't have the refinery capacity. The regulation put forth since then make it almost impossible to build a refinery.

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    We also don't have the refinery capacity. The regulation put forth since then make it almost impossible to build a refinery.
    U.S. Refinery Utilization and Capacity

    Since our refineries are running at 80 to 90% capacity, we actually do have the capacity. Oil companies are not going to increase capacity. That would only create a surplus and drive prices and profits down. Don't you extremists know anything about economics? You seem to think oil companies want gas at 50 cents a gallon.


    "It's now obvious to most Americans that we have a refinery shortage," said petroleum consultant Tim Hamilton, who authored a recent report about oil company price gouging for FTCR. "To point to the environmental laws as the cause simply misses the fact that it was the major oil companies, not the environmental groups, that used the regulatory process to create artificial shortages and limit competition."

    The memos from Mobil, Chevron and Texaco show the following.

    -- An internal 1996 memorandum from Mobil demonstrates the oil company's successful strategies to keep smaller refiner Powerine from reopening its California refinery. The document makes it clear that much of the hardships created by California's regulations governing refineries came at the urging of the major oil companies and not the environmental organizations blamed by the industry. The other alternative plan discussed in the event Powerine did open the refinery was "....buying all their avails and marketing it ourselves" to insure the lower price fuel didn't get into the market.

    -- An internal Chevron memo states; "A senior energy analyst at the recent API convention warned that if the US petroleum industry doesn't reduce its refining capacity it will never see any substantial increase in refinery margins."

    -- The Texaco memo disclosed how the industry believed in the mid-1990s that "the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus of refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. (The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry.) Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline. One example of a significant event would be the elimination of mandates for oxygenate addition to gasoline. Given a choice, oxygenate usage would go down, and gasoline supplies would go down accordingly. (Much effort is being exerted to see this happen in the Pacific Northwest.)" As a result of such pressure, Washington State eliminated the ethanol mandate - requiring greater quantities of refined supply to fill the gasoline volume occupied by ethanol.
    Last edited by USA_1; 03-29-11 at 11:31 AM.
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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    U.S. Refinery Utilization and Capacity

    Since our refineries are running at 80 to 90% capacity, we actually do have the capacity. Oil companies are not going to increase capacity. That would only create a surplus and drive prices and profits down. Don't you extremists know anything about economics? You seem to think oil companies want gas at 50 cents a gallon.
    Why is that> !0% is very small amount.

    Truth is because of rgulations it is cheaper to import refined oil annd gas.

    Oil Refinery & Refining Stocks Valero Sunoco Frontier Tesoro | InvestorPlace

    Imported gasoline is the medium-to-long-term threat to refiners. Export refineries in India, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere are positioned to drive domestic U.S. refineries’ margins even lower, regardless of whether crude oil prices are high or low. These new refineries are massive (up to 600,000 barrels/day), incorporate the latest technology and are geographically situated to feed the exploding markets of China and India.

    If U.S. refiners cannot figure out new ways to be competitive, the U.S. will end up importing even more refined products going forward. Overall, prospects for U.S. refiners look very bleak.

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Why is that> !0% is very small amount.

    Truth is because of rgulations it is cheaper to import refined oil annd gas.

    Oil Refinery & Refining Stocks Valero Sunoco Frontier Tesoro | InvestorPlace

    Imported gasoline is the medium-to-long-term threat to refiners. Export refineries in India, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere are positioned to drive domestic U.S. refineriesí margins even lower, regardless of whether crude oil prices are high or low. These new refineries are massive (up to 600,000 barrels/day), incorporate the latest technology and are geographically situated to feed the exploding markets of China and India.

    If U.S. refiners cannot figure out new ways to be competitive, the U.S. will end up importing even more refined products going forward. Overall, prospects for U.S. refiners look very bleak.
    Oil companies will not build new refineries to increase supplies. That would be cutting their own throat. You really don't get it, do you? Oil companies intentionally keep supplies tight to maximize profits. It's good business.
    Low supply=higher price=higher profits
    Surplus=lower price=lower profits
    Understand?

    Oil is a global market.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Oil companies will not build new refineries to increase supplies. That would be cutting their own throat. You really don't get it, do you? Oil companies intentionally keep supplies tight to maximize profits. It's good business.
    Low supply=higher price=higher profits
    Surplus=lower price=lower profits
    Understand?

    Oil is a global market.
    The reason no building of refineries is all the regulations the environmentalists got the democrats to put in place. It takes years just for the permits

    Yuma oil refinery supporters cheer Bush

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The reason no building of refineries is all the regulations the environmentalists got the democrats to put in place. It takes years just for the permits

    Yuma oil refinery supporters cheer Bush
    Keep believing that BS.
    There is nothing that scares big oil more than excess capacity.
    Last edited by USA_1; 03-29-11 at 02:44 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Keep believing that BS.
    There is nothing that scares big oil more than excess capacity.
    You can make excuses but the truth is democrats with the help of environmentalist have made it almost impossible to build new refineries.

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You can make excuses but the truth is democrats with the help of environmentalist have made it almost impossible to build new refineries.
    Republicans and Big Oil haven't helped either.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Republicans and Big Oil haven't helped either.
    So now you want to side step the facts I put forth

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    Re: Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So now you want to side step the facts I put forth
    Facts? I have given you facts and you ignore them. The truth is big oil doesn't want any more refineries. Excess capacity would hurt their bottom line. That's one reason the bought up all the smaller refineries in the last three decades and shut them down.



    Memos Show Oil Companies Closed Refineries To Hike Profits

    If you believe the oil industry's response to Katrina, you'd think demanding environmentalists are to blame for $3 per gallon gasoline because the tree huggers shut down refineries with tough new rules. President Bush even mimicked the industry excuse by waiving environmental standards in the wake of Katrina. Well, the industry's own internal memos show the intentional shrinking of American refinery capacity in the 1990s was the oil companies' own idea to pump up profits.

    Take this internal Texaco strategy memo: "[T]he most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus of refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. (The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry.) Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline." The memo went on to discuss a sucessful campaign in Washington State to shrink refined supply by removing other additives in the gasoline that filled gas volume.

    Another Mobil memo shows the company promoted tough regulations in California to shut down an independent refiner. A Chevron memo acknowledged the industry wide need to shutter refineries and discussed how refiners were responding in kind.

    Large oil companies have for a decade artificially shorted the gasoline market to drive up prices. Oil companies know they can make more money by making less gasoline. Katrina should be a wakeup call to America that the refiners profit widely when they keep the system running on empty. It's time for government to regulate the industry's supply. The fact that President Bush received $2.6 million from the oil industry for his reelection in 2004 should make regulation of the nation's gas supply one of the Democrats' most important talking points.
    http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_..._dcu_nus_a.htm
    There were 11 US refineries idle in 2010.
    Last edited by USA_1; 03-29-11 at 03:16 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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