• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Oil rises above $90 amid US crude supply drop

What are they not doing? Take your pick....Destroying the dollar, failing to open up exploration, and drilling, while giving money to Brazil and pledging to be their best customer....You tell me.

j-mac

They are not giving money to Brazil, they are lending money to Brazil, and like most banks when they lend, they expect to get paid back at a profit
 
You mean that's your opinion of what I'm saying, convoluted as it may be.

Incorrect. My opinion is irrelevant here. The logical end of your argument is a demand for more government dictating to oil companies what they can and cannot do. Don't get all pissy at me for pointing out the logic within your own argument.

Their oil? If it's in the ground on Government land it's our oil. They either agree to sell it here or they don't get a lease to drill. What's so hard about that? Obama released just 30 million barrels from the strategic reserve and the price of gasoline dropped 20 cents a gallon where I live.

Be that as it may, you are still explicitly calling for more government intervention in the market.

I have no clue what point you trying to make.

You are basically a hypocrite. But most people are. It's okay. As long as you recognize it.

Why is that? There is enough Natural Gas right here in the United States, we don't need to buy it anywhere else.

Because CNG is also a major product in Russia, Iran and Venezeula. And any CNG we produce here gets priced with the same mechanism. Sure it wouldn't be as bad considering that we can supply far more of our needs in CNG then oil, but we'd still be putting a very large demand pressure on CNG allowing our enemies to basically free ride off higher prices.

There are basically two ways to get around this. Nationalize hydrocarbons to screw with the commodity pricing system or get off what our enemies rely on to fuel their regimes. Imagine if we just stopped buying what Russia, Iran and Venezeula rely on. World hydrocarbons see a massive decline to record lows. No money = No Chavez. No Mullahs and no Putin. The faster we can get to wide spread nuclear/renewable, the faster we can knock off our enemies without firing a shot.
 
We should be looking for an alternative that is affordable, but my question has always been what do we do in the meantime ?

Drilling now ...especially considering the shape of our economy puts people to work … nothing bad in that …. putting people to work adds to government revenue … nope don't see anything bad about that …. . once we start extracting said oil, it can only do one of two things .. either lower prices, or cause OPEC to reduce their output …. which in turn reduces their income … can say that is a bad thing … even if our increased production ended up with more exports of our oil .. wouldn't that mean more money “coming into our country” helping to offset what is leaving because of our imports ? If so don't see this as a bad thing either.

Now when we find and development that alternate affordable fuel, that just means that all the oil we are producing
becomes and export item, which in turn brings even more money into our country.

Sorry just sometimes it's hard for me to see much of a downside of us drilling for our own oil … and I'm not even mentioning what the state and federal government gets for selling the right to drill to the oil companies.
 
We should be looking for an alternative that is affordable,

We are, this president has provided more funding for alternatives research than any other in history.

but my question has always been what do we do in the meantime ?

What the rest of the world is doing, energy conservation.

"In the post-globalized era, chain stores and fast-food eateries can be found almost everywhere on the planet. But when it comes to the most common car models, some of the biggest names remain unfamiliar to Americans.

“The rest of the world is really not a lot like us,” says Bill Visnic, a senior analyst for Edmunds.com, which provided this list of globally popular cars. “Small, compact, affordable cars more or less represent what the rest of the world drives.”

America is big, Americans prefer big, and frankly, Americans are big. As the following slides demonstrate, small cars are popular just about everywhere else, and have been for years, because they’re economical to buy and to run."


The World's Most Popular Cars - Yahoo! Autos

Drilling now ...especially considering the shape of our economy puts people to work … nothing bad in that …. putting people to work adds to government revenue … nope don't see anything bad about that …. . once we start extracting said oil, it can only do one of two things .. either lower prices, or cause OPEC to reduce their output …. which in turn reduces their income … can say that is a bad thing … even if our increased production ended up with more exports of our oil .. wouldn't that mean more money “coming into our country” helping to offset what is leaving because of our imports ? If so don't see this as a bad thing either.

Oil production has increased more in this Administration than in the last decade. Has it helped lower gas prices worldwide? No, because demand from us and the rest of the world has increased more.

Now when we find and development that alternate affordable fuel, that just means that all the oil we are producing
becomes and export item, which in turn brings even more money into our country.

Hate to break it to you but we haven't been able to produce as much oil as we use since 1971, no matter which party was in control of the government.
 
today:

The Environmental Protection Agency announced Thursday that it finalized rules that compel 28 states and the District to curb air pollution that travels across states by wind and weather, the first in a series of federal restrictions aimed at improving the air Americans breathe.

The Cross State Air Pollution Rule, which replaces a Bush-era regulation thrown out by federal courts in 2008, targets coal-fired power plants mainly in the eastern United States. The measure, along with a proposal aimed at cutting summertime smog in the Midwest, is projected to cost the utility industry roughly $2.4 billion in pollution control upgrades over several years.

EPA to impose new power plant rules - The Washington Post

hey, candidate obama said he'd out and out BANKRUPT em

party on, progressives, seeya at the polls
 
june 16, obama sends his chief of staff to confab with the fatcats and toobigs---for very special reasons:

One by one, exasperated executives stood to air their grievances on environmental regulations and stalled free-trade deals. And Daley, the former banker tasked with building ties with industry, found himself looking for the right balance between empathy and defending his boss.

At one point, the room erupted in applause when Massachusetts manufacturing executive Doug Starrett, his voice shaking with emotion, accused the administration of blocking construction on one of his facilities to protect fish, saying government “throws sand into the gears of progress.”

Daley said he did not have many good answers, appearing to throw up his hands in frustration at what he called “bureaucratic stuff that’s hard to defend.”

“Sometimes you can’t defend the indefensible,” he said.

When a paper company executive said Environmental Protection Agency regulations might cost her $10 million to $15 million to upgrade a mill, Daley said the number of rules and regulations “that come out of agencies is overwhelming.”

Later, he added: “We’re trying to bring some rationality to it.”

White House's Daley seeks balance in outreach meeting with manufacturers - The Washington Post

vote obama, 2012!

he can't defend the indefensible!

but he's trying to bring some rationality to it!

LOL!
 
vote obama, 2012!

he can't defend the indefensible!

but he's trying to bring some rationality to it!

LOL!

Who is it you want folks to vote for instead of Obama? Let's look at their plan for alternatives to world peak oil and protection of the environment that our economy and people are dependent upon to prosper.

Or have you still not been told who you think would be the best candidate?
 
Who is it you want folks to vote for instead of Obama? Let's look at their plan for alternatives to world peak oil and protection of the environment that our economy and people are dependent upon to prosper.

Or have you still not been told who you think would be the best candidate?

Funny you should bring up world peak oil and protection of the environment in the same sentences since both are myths.

Peak oil was invented to affect the price and scare people;

Global Warming BS grew out of the scare of am Ice age that just didn't scare people enough for the environmentally ill to profit from it.

There are scientists who say oil has nothing to do with animals of a million of billion years ago and in a naturally occurring substance like rocks and it is being replenished even today.

I don't buy into this but I hear it, just as I hear scientists who even today say we are headed for a mini Ice Age.

What is needed is for us not to panic over the hype and act with logic.

If you know anything you know that Oil prices are as they are because of speculation and artificial outside influences, Obama wants prices high so only a fool would vote for him, knowing high prices at the pump hurts the economy by driving up prices on all consumer goods and services.
 
energy secretary steven chu: i actively PREFER eight dollar gas, just like in EUROPE!

barack the slasher hussein: i'll BANKRUPT em!

chief of staff daley: i can't defend the indefensible... but we're working on our rationality!

LOL!

seeya at the polls, pals
 
Funny you should bring up world peak oil and protection of the environment in the same sentences since both are myths.

Peak oil was invented to affect the price and scare people;

Global Warming BS grew out of the scare of am Ice age that just didn't scare people enough for the environmentally ill to profit from it.

There are scientists who say oil has nothing to do with animals of a million of billion years ago and in a naturally occurring substance like rocks and it is being replenished even today.

I don't buy into this but I hear it, just as I hear scientists who even today say we are headed for a mini Ice Age.

What is needed is for us not to panic over the hype and act with logic.

If you know anything you know that Oil prices are as they are because of speculation and artificial outside influences, Obama wants prices high so only a fool would vote for him, knowing high prices at the pump hurts the economy by driving up prices on all consumer goods and services.

Thanks for your usual unsubstantiated opinion there Councilman? :sun

"The US military has warned that surplus oil production capacity could disappear within two years and there could be serious shortages by 2015 with a significant economic and political impact.

The energy crisis outlined in a Joint Operating Environment report from the US Joint Forces Command, comes as the price of petrol in Britain reaches record levels and the cost of crude is predicted to soon top $100 a barrel.

"By 2012, surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear, and as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10 million barrels per day," says the report, which has a foreword by a senior commander, General James N Mattis."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/11/peak-oil-production-supply

(AP) -- "A study released Tuesday says the world's climate is not only continuing to warm, it's adding greenhouse gases even faster than in the past.

In fact it's been more than 300 months since the average global average temperature was below average. The annual State of the Climate report said 2010 was tied with 2005 as the hottest year on record, worldwide and added that the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide increased faster than it has in recent decades.

Peter Thorne of North Carolina's Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites called the finding "a clear and unmistakable signal from the top of the atmosphere to the depths of the oceans.'"

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-global-greenhouse-gas.html
 
Last edited:
They are not giving money to Brazil, they are lending money to Brazil, and like most banks when they lend, they expect to get paid back at a profit

Actually, it gets better. The export bank tends to finance operations that buy capital goods from American producers. So not only are we going to make profitable interest on the Brazil loan, we're going to be able to basically stimulate the economy and get paid for it. People like J-mac don't bother to research how these loans actually work. They just knee jerk reaction it. And it shows.

I think it's a good idea for Brazil to pay us interest for them to buy our manufactured goods. Especially when they'll be basically funding the work to gather expertise into deep water drilling that we can later exploit for cheap.
 
Funny you should bring up world peak oil and protection of the environment in the same sentences since both are myths.

Peak oil was invented to affect the price and scare people;

Peak oil is nothing more then a basic fact of consumable finite resources. To deny that peak oil exists is to basically argue that oil is on our timeline infinite in context of demand. That is hardly intelligent.

Global Warming BS grew out of the scare of am Ice age that just didn't scare people enough for the environmentally ill to profit from it.

Incorrect, Climate change grew out of basic data showing rising temperatures. Furthermore there is a wealth of biological evidence suggesting that temperatures are rising, from organisms being found well North of their normal habitats to plants blooming weeks to even months earlier then normal. To say the climate isn't changing is to basically call every outdoorsmen who noticed this kind of stuff a liar.

There are scientists who say oil has nothing to do with animals of a million of billion years ago and in a naturally occurring substance like rocks and it is being replenished even today.

And they are largely whacks. While it is true that oil can form from non-organic sources, there is no evidence suggesting it can form in large amounts from non-organic sources on a reasonable time line. Furthermore, evolutionary timelines have been spot on in predicting hydrocarbon deposits based on where specific types of organisms lived in the past and what geological conditions existed during their decay. That alone condemns the theory of significant abiological sources of oil.

If you know anything you know that Oil prices are as they are because of speculation and artificial outside influences

What is a natural source? Human demand is an artificial influence.
 
World oil prices doubled doubled despite the fact that the rate of US oil production during Obama's administration increased to its highest level in a decade.

Such is life in an oil based economy approaching peak oil.



Support our troops...........ride a bike! :sun

So If Obama is so hyped on going green where is the E-85 stations? Where is the push for people to convert their cars to E-85? Sounds to me like more BS from the administration
 
I'm not defending Clinton or the Democrats. The only difference between the Democrats and the Repubicans are the Democrats like to leave a few more crumbs for the little people to divide between themselves. Too many Democrats went along with it but it was the Republicans that pushed it through.

So why didn't the democrats fix it when they had a filibuster proof congress?
 
Do you enjoy debating arguments of your own obvious fabrication? If you want a response to that argument, ask the one who made it: you.

Obama is doing nothing so it is the same as always. I thought Obama campaigned on talking? He has not talked with big oil or the speculators
 
"the first in a series of federal restrictions aimed at improving the air Americans breathe." Right, all those that want dirty air to breathe, vote with the Prof's candidate! Once his party as determined for him who that will be. LOL! :sun

You mean at raising energy costs to the consumers and putting coal out of business
 
Peak Oil: The End of an Old Age

"Of the 65 largest oil producing countries in the world, up to 54 have passed their peak of production and are now in decline, including the USA in 1970, Indonesia in 1997, Australia in 2000, the UK in 1999, Norway in 2001, and Mexico in 2004. Hubbert's methods, as well as other methodologies, have been used to make various projections about the global oil peak, with results ranging from 'already peaked', to the more optimistic 2035. Many of the official sources of data used to model oil peak such as OPEC figures, oil company reports, and the USGS discovery projections, upon which the international energy agencies base their own reports, can be shown to be frighteningly unreliable. In November 2009, the International Energy Agency's World Economic Outlook report stated that oil and gas liquids were not expected to peak until 2030, at significantly higher levels than today, however this was met by rebukes from internal whistleblowers who argued that the figures are more political than scientific. In response to the questionable reliability of IEA reports, several notable scientists have attempted independent studies, most famously, Colin Campbell and associates with the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas (ASPO)."
 
"Post Carbon Institute"??? maybe your 'peak oil' rhetoric would be better served with a thread in the religion board....lol...

j-mac
 
"Post Carbon Institute"??? maybe your 'peak oil' rhetoric would be better served with a thread in the religion board....lol...

j-mac

A lame attempt at a joke in rebuttal to facts is very poor debating style, but one of your better posts! Congrats! :sun
 
A lame attempt at a joke in rebuttal to facts is very poor debating style, but one of your better posts! Congrats! :sun

So you agree to an extent that your 'peak oil' rhetoric is really more religion than fact...good to see an honest post from you cat. Congrats...:sun


J-mac
 
finite resources run out. it's hardly a matter of faith.

unless, i suppose, you're one of the "abiotic oil" people who imagine that we are floating on an ocean of oil that replenishes itself faster than we can pump it out.
 
finite resources run out. it's hardly a matter of faith.

unless, i suppose, you're one of the "abiotic oil" people who imagine that we are floating on an ocean of oil that replenishes itself faster than we can pump it out.

Everything in this world is finite, nothing is infinite in quantity. We are discovering more oil every day, some of these finds are huge. Our country has more oil than any other country in the world. Unfortunately, we also have more regulations on drilling than any other country in the world, estimated we have 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia.

Before It's News

Definitely not something you'll hear on the mainstream media:

USGS Release: 3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995 Estimate— (4/10/2008 2:25:36 PM)
 
Back
Top Bottom