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Thread: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

  1. #41
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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    While, true, slavery was a key component of the Civil War, it was hardly the only one.

    Name one great nation in world history that wasn't built on the backs of slavery. And I use "great" as meaning successful and powerful, not morally superior. A nation could not begin without it because there was no economy to build from. Free labor is the only dependable currency a young country could build itself upon.

    Now, the ugly part of this truth is how American whites had convinced themselves that African "savages" were inferior, both intellectually and morally, thereby making the practice "acceptable" in many of their minds. This has repeated itself throughout history. The Romans did it. The Germans saw the Jews this way. Virtually every nation in world history had a targetted race or ethnicity. Even today, many Muslims see infidels in this same manner without apology. Look at Darfur.

    It is a mistake to take today's views and try and supplant them into 1850, just a few decades after America was born and much was uncertain. Much of the South thought itself destined to break away from that union in the very early goings. (Iraq is in that condition right now; it takes considerable time.)

    There was a vast economic disconnect from the North during those times that had nothing to do with slavery. It was similar to what you might see today between New York City and Omaha. Two completely different worlds. Totally different lifestyles. Different markets and economies entirely. A different set of values and priorities. Except in the years leading up to the Civil War, there wasn't a framework of a nation solidly in place as today.

    That divide is still there. America is a conglomerate of very different people and values, and as natural migration to like-minded people continues to occur, there is a tangible divide that is deepening by the day. Though our nation is much more firmly established, talk of secession is constant and somewhat real. That will continue to deepen.

    Of course, Americans are so fat, lazy, and stupid, they think such a thing could never happen again. They don't understand that this is still a very young nation, and every world power before us has eventually divided and crumbled, and we will one day, too, sooner or later.
    Last edited by Erod; 12-21-10 at 11:09 AM.

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    true, the civil war was more about the south getting the shaft, providing the great crop of prosperity, cotton, and not reaping the benefits of construction that the North was seeing. railroads, factories, etc.
    And then suddenly being told you werent going to get any more money for your crop, less even, but now you may have to pay your labor force, being the straw that broke the camels back.

    I would hope that slavery would have ended on its own due to the inhumanity of it alone. Which was already taking place, many plantation owners were treating their slaves very well, and it was looked upon as employment. I mean what were most slaves going to do otherwise. they were brought here uneducated, had families to feed, needed housing.
    there were thousands of stories of slaves being part of the family...
    And abuse was no more rampant on a plantation than it was on many work crews throughout the new industrialization of America elsewhere.
    The civil war was more a protest to states not having a fair seat at the table.

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I disagree. The cotton gin had already been invented. The South no longer needed slavery, but they still wanted it. And even if they still needed it, that does not excuse their moral reprehensibility, nor should secession be something to celebrate.
    It would be a 66% tax hike for starters, wouldn't it?
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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    true, the civil war was more about the south getting the shaft, providing the great crop of prosperity, cotton, and not reaping the benefits of construction that the North was seeing. railroads, factories, etc.
    And then suddenly being told you werent going to get any more money for your crop, less even, but now you may have to pay your labor force, being the straw that broke the camels back.

    I would hope that slavery would have ended on its own due to the inhumanity of it alone. Which was already taking place, many plantation owners were treating their slaves very well, and it was looked upon as employment. I mean what were most slaves going to do otherwise. they were brought here uneducated, had families to feed, needed housing.
    there were thousands of stories of slaves being part of the family...And abuse was no more rampant on a plantation than it was on many work crews throughout the new industrialization of America elsewhere.
    The civil war was more a protest to states not having a fair seat at the table.
    That is a story that should be told. Despite being amidst a horrible human rights violation, there still managed to be very human relationships that formed between whites and blacks. Many whites trusted their children implicitly with their slaves. The black and white kids played together on the plantations.

    You wonder what young black and white children talked about when they turned 11 or 12 years old. They had to see the disparity. It had to haunt them.

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    While, true, slavery was a key component of the Civil War, it was hardly the only one.

    Name one great nation in world history that wasn't built on the backs of slavery. And I use "great" as meaning successful and powerful, not morally superior. A nation could not begin without it because there was no economy to build from. Free labor is the only dependable currency a young country could build itself upon.

    Now, the ugly part of this truth is how American whites had convinced themselves that African "savages" were inferior, both intellectually and morally, thereby making the practice "acceptable" in many of their minds. This has repeated itself throughout history. The Romans did it. The Germans saw the Jews this way. Virtually every nation in world history had a targetted race or ethnicity. Even today, many Muslims see infidels in this same manner without apology. Look at Darfur.

    It is a mistake to take today's views and try and supplant them into 1850, just a few decades after America was born and much was uncertain. Much of the South thought itself destined to break away from that union in the very early goings. (Iraq is in that condition right now; it takes considerable time.)

    There was a vast economic disconnect from the North during those times that had nothing to do with slavery. It was similar to what you might see today between New York City and Omaha. Two completely different worlds. Totally different lifestyles. Different markets and economies entirely. A different set of values and priorities. Except in the years leading up to the Civil War, there wasn't a framework of a nation solidly in place as today.

    That divide is still there. America is a conglomerate of very different people and values, and as natural migration to like-minded people continues to occur, there is a tangible divide that is deepening by the day. Though our nation is much more firmly established, talk of secession is constant and somewhat real. That will continue to deepen.

    Of course, Americans are so fat, lazy, and stupid, they think such a thing could never happen again. They don't understand that this is still a very young nation, and every world power before us has eventually divided and crumbled, and we will one day, too, sooner or later.
    What are you talking about -- Great Britain has never committed any atrocities on the world stage, and we were (are) the greatest nation of them all!

    XD

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    What are you talking about -- Great Britain has never committed any atrocities on the world stage, and we were (are) the greatest nation of them all!

    XD
    LOL, other than killing millions while trying to take over the planet.

    And what's with those centuries of serfdom, and the Abolition of Slavery Act you passed AFTER you were the most powerful country in Europe?

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    LOL, other than killing millions while trying to take over the planet.

    And what's with those centuries of serfdom, and the Abolition of Slavery Act you passed AFTER you were the most powerful country in Europe?
    Picking up on subtlety is not your forté, mon ami.

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Picking up on subtlety is not your forté, mon ami.
    No, I got it. Just pointed out the ironies for those that might not.

    Hey, despite all England's sins, I love our fair brethren across the pond. You did a lot more good than bad. Don't know where the planet would be today without you.

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    I think the 4 in 10 Americans that believe in strict creationism must live in S.C.

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    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    No, I got it. Just pointed out the ironies for those that might not.

    Hey, despite all England's sins, I love our fair brethren across the pond. You did a lot more good than bad. Don't know where the planet would be today without you.
    I think it would be arrogant to say "I'm surprised to hear you say that", so I'll opt instead for something closer to the truth, like, "I'm proud to hear you say that."

    At the risk of this turning into a Trans-Atlantic fellating session, I'll admit that, though I often take a hard stance on the States in recent times, they've generally been on the better side of history.

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